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rbmartin Sun Apr 17, 2016 01:42pm

Fed Balk ruling
 
I was a spectator (my son was playing) at a home varsity game yesterday. HP was a guy I had never worked with before but for the first 2 or 3 innings both he and his partner seemed to know their stuff (consistent zone, good communication with each other etc.).
Around the 3rd inning visitors get their first base runner. F1 (RHP) goes from the stretch for the first time in the game. With pivot foot on pitchers plate and the ball in his right hand behind his back, he is looking in for the sign. While doing this his glove hand is hanging down freely moving with a very slight, slow pendulum movement (probably 3 inches each way). HP cries "BALK". He tells F1 the pendulum motion was not allowed. Ball goes live again. "BALK" again. Same explanation. Coach tells F1 "If he's gonna call it you have to stop doing it! F1 complies. Game continues without incident.,
2 or 3 parents start heading my way asking me to explain the call. I am usually very hesitant to criticize one of my brethren in blue so I say something like "I guess he felt the movement constituted some sort of feint or something. It's a judgement call", but in the back of my mind I'm thinking "There's no way on earth I would call that a balk."

So my question is, would a slight pendulum motion with the free, glove hand while working from the stretch (as you look in for the sign) and before coming to the set position be considered a balk. I reread the book last night to make sure I wasn't missing something, but I just don't see it.

Rich Ives Sun Apr 17, 2016 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 986346)
I was a spectator (my son was playing) at a home varsity game yesterday. HP was a guy I had never worked with before but for the first 2 or 3 innings both he and his partner seemed to know their stuff (consistent zone, good communication with each other etc.).
Around the 3rd inning visitors get their first base runner. F1 (RHP) goes from the stretch for the first time in the game. With pivot foot on pitchers plate and the ball in his right hand behind his back, he is looking in for the sign. While doing this his glove hand is hanging down freely moving with a very slight, slow pendulum movement (probably 3 inches each way). HP cries "BALK". He tells F1 the pendulum motion was not allowed. Ball goes live again. "BALK" again. Same explanation. Coach tells F1 "If he's gonna call it you have to stop doing it! F1 complies. Game continues without incident.,
2 or 3 parents start heading my way asking me to explain the call. I am usually very hesitant to criticize one of my brethren in blue so I say something like "I guess he felt the movement constituted some sort of feint or something. It's a judgement call", but in the back of my mind I'm thinking "There's no way on earth I would call that a balk."

So my question is, would a slight pendulum motion with the free, glove hand while working from the stretch (as you look in for the sign) and before coming to the set position be considered a balk. I reread the book last night to make sure I wasn't missing something, but I just don't see it.

FED rules consider it a balk (start of motion).

bob jenkins Sun Apr 17, 2016 06:40pm

The FED case play on this only discusses the pitching hand hanging down.

Benchcoach Sun Apr 17, 2016 08:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 986346)
"I guess he felt the movement constituted some sort of feint or something.

You initial guess was correct.
6-2-4(a) Says, "Any (my emphasis) feinting toward the batter..."

I do agree it is a judgment call and understand that it is one you would not make. But the term ANY makes it difficult to argue with the umpire exercising his discretion.

rbmartin Sun Apr 17, 2016 09:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 986366)
You initial guess was correct.
6-2-4(a) Says, "Any (my emphasis) feinting toward the batter..."

I do agree it is a judgment call and understand that it is one you would not make. But the term ANY makes it difficult to argue with the umpire exercising his discretion.

If it was a feint toward the batter....which it was not.

Rich Ives Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 986362)
The FED case play on this only discusses the pitching hand hanging down.

Same concept I think - starting to come set and stopping.

john5396 Mon Apr 18, 2016 07:27am

I don't have my casebook with me, but as I recall the case play does say "slight" or "small", so the PU has rules backing for the call. That said, I think 2-3 inches of movement is pretty slight.

thumpferee Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:40am

We had a similar discussion at our meeting last night. We were discussing the "gorilla" arm. With the ball in hand, there could be intent if the arm was moving to deceive. But if the ball was in glove, we saw very little deceit there.

Rich Ives Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 986404)
We had a similar discussion at our meeting last night. We were discussing the "gorilla" arm. With the ball in hand, there could be intent if the arm was moving to deceive. But if the ball was in glove, we saw very little deceit there.

Deceit is legal if done within the rules.

FED says you can't swing the arm.

bob jenkins Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:45am

SITUATION 2: While in the set position, F1 has his pitching hand hanging straight down in front of his body, swinging back and forth, as he gets the sign from the catcher. RULING: This is not legal and is an illegal pitch or a balk if there are runners on base. While this “gorilla” stance is legal if the pitching hand is stationary, it is illegal if the arm is swinging back and forth. (6-1-3)

Emphasis added

thumpferee Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:06pm

Where does it say anything about the glove, as in the OP?

Rich Ives Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 986412)
Where does it say anything about the glove, as in the OP?

It doesn't. But in my mind as they consider the swing as a start of the motion to get to set and as you have to bring your hands together to get to set then moving the glove is also part of starting the motion.

umpjim Mon Apr 18, 2016 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 986418)
It doesn't. But in my mind as they consider the swing as a start of the motion to get to set and as you have to bring your hands together to get to set then moving the glove is also part of starting the motion.

The umpire judges whether it is the start of coming set and if not it is not a balk:

"6.1.2 SITUATION D:

F1, while on the pitcher’s plate in either the windup or set position, (a) adjusts his cap or (b) shakes off the signal with his glove, or (c) shakes off the signal with his head.

RULING: In (a) through (c), these are legal actions if these movements of the arms and legs are not associated with the pitch."

DG Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:52pm

The gorilla arm is an interpretation, from 2005 I think. As long as the pitching arm is not swinging back and forth considerably it is not a balk. It is a FED interpretation.

Rich Ives Tue Apr 19, 2016 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 986454)
The umpire judges whether it is the start of coming set and if not it is not a balk:

"6.1.2 SITUATION D:

F1, while on the pitcher’s plate in either the windup or set position, (a) adjusts his cap or (b) shakes off the signal with his glove, or (c) shakes off the signal with his head.

RULING: In (a) through (c), these are legal actions if these movements of the arms and legs are not associated with the pitch."

Please read Post #10


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