Obstruction
 

Fed Rules. On pick off play large F3 when throw permits always takes front knee to the ground and uses thigh to block return to the base. I have Obstruction. Any disagreements?

It's OBS *IF* it (a) happens before F3 catches the ball (and to be clear, it's the OBS that must happen, not just the dropping the knee), AND (b) F3 denies complete access to the base.

If F3 drops to the ground then catches the ball then the runner contacts F3 -- probably legal.

If F3 blocks part of the base but leaves part for the runner, probably legal (and "part" means "part of the side facing second base").

Obstruction

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Fed Rules. On pick off play large F3 when throw permits always takes front knee to the ground and uses thigh to block return to the base. I have Obstruction. Any disagreements?


Would it be the same if it was a small F3 :D

I'd say that would be obstruction and therefore ILLEGAL.

Why? the runner wasn't "hindered" until F3 already had the ball.

2.22.1 SITUATION B: B1 hits the ball into the gap. He rounds first and heads to second base. F6 blocks the base (a) while the outfielder still has the ball, (b) after F6 catches the ball, or (c) the ball is in motion from the outfield and F6 will probably make a play on B1. RULING: Obstruction in (a); legal in (b); obstruction in (c) if F6 denies access to the base without possession of the ball.

He dropped to his knee before catching the ball. That's what you wrote. That's like a catcher blocking the plate without the ball.

A fielder can be in front of a bag without the ball. What he can't do is hinder the runner when he doesn't have the ball. There is a difference.

And on a pick-off, the runner isn't likely to be hindered until the actual moment of contact -- so if the fielder has the ball when the contact occurs, no OBS. (yes, there are some exceptions; and NCAA makes this move OBS even if the fielder has the ball when the contact occurs)

If F3 blocks the runner's access to the base without the ball, he's obstructed him unless the tag is applied before contact. We wouldn't allow the runner to push F3 off the base and interfere. If the pick off throw drew F3 I to the path of the runner, then I would not have obstruction.

Why not?

F3 bumps R1 and knocks him off balance as he reaches for an errant throw. F3 catches the ball and tags R3.

Why? You can't be serious. F3 has a right to go for the ball. If the throw draws him into the runner it's incidental contact while making a baseball play. Both players doing the right thing and occupying the same space. How about you explain why F3 has no right to move to make a play on an errant throw. I'm sure we would all learn something new.

Coach Paul:

Correct if I am wrong but doesn't H.S. baseball in Massachusetts use OBR instead of NFHS?

MTD, Sr.

Because he can't hinder the runner if he doesn't have the ball (FED and LL). NCAA says F3 can't block the base.

Where is F3 positioned that he is able to block the base by dropping a knee.

In higher level ball the second time he tries it the runner may come back feet first. :)

Case play 8.3.2K (any typos are mine): F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in an attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while B1 is short of first base. Ruling: (a) Obstruction.

Sure -- the case play is a grounder, and this thread is dealing with a pickoff. But, the concept is the same -- the fielder (in FED) does not have the "right to go for the (thrown) ball."

Or, to put it another way:

The defense screwed up by making a bad throw. An attempt to catch that bad throw doesn't give a fielder the "right" to obstruct a runner.

As others have confirmed, I am serious.

F3 has every right to move to make a play on an errant throw, he just can't obstruct the runner when doing so. As CT1 said, the defense screwed up and made a bad throw. You can't penalize the runner for for a defensive error.

And, you may not believe this either, he is awarded 2nd base on the obstruction!

Yes, even if he was going back to 1st.

Nothing NEW!

:confused:RI has wandered into what happened next. F3 used his thigh to block the entire return to the bag. After having achieved a pick off. The frustrated 1b coach was over heard to tell his next runner to slide back feet first. FU warned coach if such a return did occur, he would eject coach and player. F3 continued the maneuver throughout the game but did not achieve any more pick offs.

I've never seen that (at least not intentionally). All who have tried this use the lower leg.

Bob:
Poor typing, I meant lower leg. Typed thigh because that what was most visible.

Nowhere in the NFHS Baseball Rules will you find a rule that defines when and when not a Runner can slide feet first into a Base.

MTD, Sr.

True about rule but I am certain FU saw it as a safety issue. Wanting to teach a kid a lesson would not justify harming him. It would have been real easy to break F3's ankle. It would also be morally repugnant and unethical.

Coach:

Your bucket of reasons for penalizing R1 is leaking worse than the Titantic. If R1 effects a legal slide and during such a legal slide makes contact with F3, there is no infraction of the rules, even if F3 is injured. Stop trying to enforce a rule that does not exist.

MTD, Sr.

the slide has to be legal.

That means butt cheek and one leg on the ground. I cant envision a case where the slide is legal but still rises in my judgment to malicious contact. I guess there could be a case when you judge intent to harm even when the slide is legal.

Go for it. Let me know how that goes for you.

Fairly easy to envision such a case....an otherwise legal slide coming in spikes high could easily be MC.

No need for high spikes - F3's leg is on the ground. :D