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Walk-Off, I think
I have a feeling this is correct, however, I would like the rules gurus to post the rule. Please see the link below to the video as I do not know how to imbed videos. Thanks!
MLB Tonight on D-backs' walk-off | MLB.com |
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The guard / groundskeeper handled the ball.
Now it's an award. Only R3 and the BR have to advance on an award in MLB. Had the player retrieved it....it would've been Merkle's Boner, 2015 version. |
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What interp is that? Actually there is a poorly written rule that only requires the BR and R3 to touch on an award or "other play". That rule then has an interp that it doesn't apply on a batted ball. Umps got taken off the hook by the security guard. |
On an AWARDED base only R3 and the BR need to advance and touch. On a BATTED ball (base hit) EVERYONE needs to advance.
JJ |
Yup. When the security guard picked it up....
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When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base. Once F5 touches 3B R3 is no longer forced. It then reverts to the normal "run can't score when" exceptions. |
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So in the OP, the outfielder without security guard interference could not run down the ball and throw to 3B for a force on a runner who did not advance? |
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Note the penalty in 5.08 (4.09): PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, the umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending player, and order the game resumed. If, before two are out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, the run shall count, but the offending player shall be called out. In this play, the only runner that needed to touch his base was the R3 touching home to score the run. The BR didn't even need to advance to first since there were less than two outs. This is different from Fed, which requires all runners to touch (9-1-1 Note 2). That video needs a "raving lunatic commentator" label on it. |
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Please post citations from both.
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DG I'm sorry but you just had a big swing a miss.
The OBR are quite specific in the difference between an awarded bass and runners that are advanced through a hit. Think Merkel's boner. rich identified early the issue was completely ball being handled by a Nonplaying employee – that ended any hope of any appeals. there are many references available concerning the umpires press conference explanaio |
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"In such a game-ending situation, where runners advance without peril of an out, only the runner from third and the batter-runner are required to advance and touch the next base (4.09b). - page 36." My 2010 WUM on page 81 has this: "This requirement for only the runner from third and the batter-runner to advance to their bases, only applies in this situation. With bases full, if runners are forced to advance by reason of the batter putting the ball in play, or because of an uncaught third strike, all runners will be required to advance and touch their next base in order for the game to be ended. If they do not advance to their next bases before defense puts them out...for the third out, no runs will score." The first sentence refers the situation of a winning run walked in or by HBP. Whether the current PBUC umpire school agrees with Wendelstedt and whether Wendelstedt still teaches it I don't know. |
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If the security guard doesn't pick up the ball, and a fielder does... all you have is a force out at 2nd base. |
I think the security guard picking up the ball is not relevant because by the time he did BR has touched 1b and R3 has touched home and game is over.
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Forced runner must advance on a batted ball.
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I don't see what the confusion in this video is all about. In OBR, the lead runner must advance and touch home and the batter runner must touch 1st base. The other runners do not matter and the game is over. The security guard picking up the ball and the appeals are a mute point..... the game is over! What is so hard to understand? Why all the what if this and that?
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Ozzy... if the security guard doesn't get the ball (killing play)... and it's just a fielder relaying the ball in...
The force out at 2nd (after all, this is just a batted ball, and fielders got the ball to 2nd before the runner got there ... admittedly slowly - but that's really irrelevant) would nullify any run (if that out was the 3rd out... something that is not entirely clear from the OP). 2 outs, bases loaded. Ball hit to F7 on the ground, who fields it cleanly, and notices the runner from first has fallen to the ground injured - so throws it to 2nd after BR passes first, and after R1 touches home... this is a force out - no run. The OP (If the security guard doesn't get the ball) is no different. |
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According to Wendelstedt, the appeal at third base was a force because the runner was forced at the time he "missed" the base. Provided that both appeals were valid, the run should not have scored.
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After a re-read of MLBUM 4.11 and OBR 5.08, and searching out Wendlestedt's explanation I have come to the conclusion that the words "shall not declare the game ended until" is quite different than "the game ends when". Wendlestedt is clear (p 78) that runners "will be required to advance and touch their next base in order for the game to be ended."
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Reminds me of one those: "Ever body knows that commercials.."
That's what a walk off looks like. Out field in, over your head or just to deep, we give. Quite common. I don't like his explanation, but they got it right. From NBC: Umpire Larry Varner provided an official explanation after the game: “There are two or three different rules that come into play in game-ending type situations. Now you’re talking about appealing bases. 4.09(b) talks about how a run scores and it also gets tied into game-ending situations. Let’s say the bases are loaded and you get ball four. The guy on third has to come and score and the batter has to go and touch first. If they don’t fulfill those two obligations, someone can be called out for that and the game continues with two outs. We didn’t have that situation, but that’s what they were asking. Then they were asking, ‘Can we throw it around and tag all the bases and get force outs?’ In that situation you can’t. First of all, they didn’t play the ball. The infielders were leaving the infield. The runner from third touched the plate and the runner from the plate touched first. Those two things right there met the obligation of the rule. When that run scores and the batter has touched first, the game’s over.” |
Sounds like those MLB umpires better go back to Wendelstedt. ;)
I wonder if MLB came out with an official interp internally? |
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