When does OBS end?

DaveASA/FED · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 04:51pm

Ok been kicking something around in my head. here is the play
R1 on first, B2 hits a triple to the fence but gets tripped by F3 and falls hard, R1 stops to look at teammate and slows down when ball gets in there is a close play at 2nd on B2 but you signal safe, as the play is going on R1 has now broke for home and there is a throw to the plate to make a play on her, B2 now tries for 3rd and is tagged out by less than a step.....so what do you do???

I am thinking that it would be a dead ball and award the runner 3rd since, as I mentioned above IMJ it was a triple when it was hit with no OBS....and I would not kill the play at 2nd since she was safe....

BUT the only thing I have to say is it looks awful thinking through how that would have to look on the field. Girl barely safe at 2nd then on a continuing play you still give her 3rd. My answer is, if she was on 2nd after the ball was dead I was going to give her 3rd anyway.....

Just kicking that around in my head, thought I would bring you all into my warped discussion.....

so what say you all???

MGKBLUE · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 05:14pm

Under ASA rule 8-5-B-4, after all play has ceased the umpire should call time and:

The obstructed runner and all other runners shall always be awarded the base or bases which would have been reached, in the umpire's judgement, had there been no obstruction.

In this case score the run and place the batter runner on 3rd base.

SRW · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 05:51pm

Why wouldn't you kill it when the OBS'd runner was played on at 2B? Why let all the extra crap after that go on?

Other than that, MGK got it.

SC Ump · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

BUT the only thing I have to say is it looks awful ...

I agree, and if it toward the end of a close game, you're probably going to end up ejecting somebody... but she still should get third.

NCASAUmp · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 06:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW

Why wouldn't you kill it when the OBS'd runner was played on at 2B? Why let all the extra crap after that go on?

Other than that, MGK got it.

You shouldn't kill the play at 2B in this scenario because the runner wasn't put out. If she's safe, the ball is still live.

While killing the play would make absolute sense in terms of not having a riot on your hands when you award 3B, that's not how the book is written. So while I agree with your reasoning, I'd have a tough time backing it up with what the book says.

SRW · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 07:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You shouldn't kill the play at 2B in this scenario because the runner wasn't put out. If she's safe, the ball is still live.

Oh, geeze, you're absolutely right. That's my error for reading the OP too damn quick.

IRISHMAFIA · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 22, 2008, 11:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok been kicking something around in my head. here is the play
R1 on first, B2 hits a triple to the fence but gets tripped by F3 and falls hard, R1 stops to look at teammate and slows down when ball gets in there is a close play at 2nd on B2 but you signal safe, as the play is going on R1 has now broke for home and there is a throw to the plate to make a play on her, B2 now tries for 3rd and is tagged out by less than a step.....so what do you do???

I am thinking that it would be a dead ball and award the runner 3rd since, as I mentioned above IMJ it was a triple when it was hit with no OBS....and I would not kill the play at 2nd since she was safe....

BUT the only thing I have to say is it looks awful thinking through how that would have to look on the field. Girl barely safe at 2nd then on a continuing play you still give her 3rd. My answer is, if she was on 2nd after the ball was dead I was going to give her 3rd anyway.....

Just kicking that around in my head, thought I would bring you all into my warped discussion.....

so what say you all???

B2 is awarded 3B. Just out of curiosity, was R1 thrown out at the plate? You noted there was a play, but never really indicated the result.

Dholloway1962 · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 24, 2008, 10:16pm

Granted it is your judgement, but do you really think the batter/runner would have made 3rd with no OBS?? How many "normal" hits to the fence end up in triples? Not that many but a double is pretty much granted (sure there are a few extreme speedsters but those are exceptions). I'm protecting her to 2nd and then out as she advanced with liabilty to be put out.

It is your judgement, and I would back you on the play if that was your judgement, but if you put her at 3rd that is one argument I don't want to witness!! LOL

NCASAUmp · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 24, 2008, 10:31pm

Well, that's why we get paid to do our jobs.

It's our job to make those judgment calls, and we get paid for our impartial opinions. If you think the runner should only have gotten 2B, then there you go.

wadeintothem · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 24, 2008, 10:34pm

I dont feel like there would be an argument at all.. maybe a ticked off coach and me explaining it.. then me going back to get the ball game back on. Thats about as long as this would last unless the coach had a six pack in his SUV in the parking lot he was in a hurry to get to.

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 24, 2008, 10:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Granted it is your judgement, but do you really think the batter/runner would have made 3rd with no OBS?? How many "normal" hits to the fence end up in triples? Not that many but a double is pretty much granted (sure there are a few extreme speedsters but those are exceptions). I'm protecting her to 2nd and then out as she advanced with liabilty to be put out.

It is your judgement, and I would back you on the play if that was your judgement, but if you put her at 3rd that is one argument I don't want to witness!! LOL

It isn't a question. The scenario offered clearly states it was a triple, so that is what it is. BTW, I don't think it is that unusual especially if a gapper to an unanticipated section of the field.

DaveASA/FED · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 09:34am

Well I made it a triple so I had a play where the Batter was stopped at 2nd and then the ability to have the "delayed" award of OBS, since that was what was bothering me....

Irish,
Are you getting at awarding R1 home if she was slowed by the OBS? Is that why you are asking about the play at the plate?

If R1 was at first and B2 gets a triple, then R1 would be awarded home based on the OBS award for B2? Interesting thought, but I don't remember where we can protect another runner based on the OBS....award home if she stops at 3rd and I am awarding B2 a triple sure....but can we protect R1 going into home? Wierd cause in this case if we don't protect R1 then she can be out based on the play if she tries for home, but would be awarded home if she stayed at 3rd....seems kind of like a loop hole huh???

canump · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You shouldn't kill the play at 2B in this scenario because the runner wasn't put out. If she's safe, the ball is still live.

While killing the play would make absolute sense in terms of not having a riot on your hands when you award 3B, that's not how the book is written. So while I agree with your reasoning, I'd have a tough time backing it up with what the book says.

Up north of the border here, our CASA rule book states that when a play is made on an obstructed runner whether the call is safe or out, the play shall be killed and any awards due to the obstruction shall be awarded.

IRISHMAFIA · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Irish,
Are you getting at awarding R1 home if she was slowed by the OBS? Is that why you are asking about the play at the plate?

Not at all, just curious. R1 was NOT affected by the OBS therefore is not entitled to any special treatment.

NCASAUmp · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 01:40pm

So I guess to sum it up for the OP, OBS protection ends when the runner has advanced to the awarded base. If you think they've got 3rd, then give them 3rd.

The rules supplement go into a lot of depth on the subject. Give it a read if you haven't already. It's RS #36, I believe.