Was I Justified?

[Armadillo_Blue]

I was working a 14U tournament last weekend utilizing Fed rules.

Friday and Saturday went fine and then came Sunday which was bracket play instead of pool play, leading up to the championship game.

I guess I will keep this simple, although there is probably a lot of background I could share to set up the situation.

The RH pitcher, with a runner on third, tries to step to the 45 degree line and pick off the runner on third. Unfortunately the step is more toward home and the PU and I both call a balk and stop the ensuing rundown.

Out comes the coach, loudly declaring that this is not a balk and that his pitcher stepped at a 45 degree angle. The PU explains that he stepped more toward home and that this is a balk.

Then the coach turns and heads toward me. I hold up my hand in the stop sign and say "Coach, we are not going to argue step balks" The coach keeps coming, heading toward the mound and says "I just want to see something" I hold up my hand again and say "Coach, stop, let's play ball"

The coach proceeds to the mound, looks at the ground, finds a foot print and with an exaggerated motion points at the foot print and says, "There it is, that's what I thought."

I eject the coach at this point and start walking back toward my spot which is now in A. The coach follows me, yelling at me, demanding an explanation of why he was tossed, since he wasn't arguing. I continue to my position and he continues to follow, yelling at me not to walk away from him.

I get to A and turn around. The coach is right there and I explain to him that I have ejected him for arguing and if he does not leave the field his team will have to forfeit the game.

The coach then turns around and walks over to the PU who is still behind the plate. He and the plate umpire get into a discussion, complete with motions and gestures, as to where the pitcher stepped and why it was a balk. My partner continues this discussion for about three minutes and then the coach leaves the field.

The coach takes up a position about 50 ft behind the backstop on a sidewalk bordering the parking lot. I notice him actually sending in signals to his other coach and players from his position.

At this point I call over the site supervisor, who incidentally is the TD's son. I explain to him that I have ejected the coach and that the coach needs to get out of sight of the field. He says OK and I return to my position. After this, he does nothing to remove the coach. At the half inning he talks to the PU while I am in right field and then hops on his cell phone.

Two innings later the tournament UIC shows up and talks with the coach and then lets him stay there.

After the game is over, the UIC approaches me. I say "I think you will need to find someone else to work the rest of the games today" He asks me what is up and I relate the above events. He then tells me that I was wrong to eject the coach. In his x number of years experience he has learned that sometimes you just have to let the coach come out and point at some footprints and make some marks and yell a little and then go back to the dug out. I told him that I disagreed.

At this point he thanked me and handed me a check for all the games I had worked up to that point. I gathered my gear and left.

So now I am looking for opinions and constructive criticism.

Was I right to toss?
Was I right to quit?
Should I have expected my partner and the UIC to back me up even if they disagreed?
Could I have done something in a better way?

What do you guys think?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue

Snip!

What do you guys think?

You ejected at the exact same point I would've. His gesture was no different than a batter drawing a line with his bat.

As I posted earlier, when you work for someone, you follow their direction or you leave. You made the choice that was right for you and I likely would've made a similar choice in this type of tournament.

[sargee7]

I agree with Rich. Don't care how many x years someone has. You did the right thing and should expect backing. The UIC threw you under the bus.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by sargee7

I agree with Rich. Don't care how many x years someone has. You did the right thing and should expect backing. The UIC threw you under the bus.

Not to mention the PU, who should have herded the coach off the field after you tossed him. He should not have been standing behind the plate and watching and he most certainly should not have carried on a conversation with the coach after he's been ejected.

[Cub42]

Sounds as if the TD has no control or idea about game mgt. You were right to run the coach. Here are a few ideas of how to handle that situation, and the ensuing S/H:

1) The Balk.
Once you call a balk, in Fed, it is a dead ball. The H/C is entitled to an explanation. He is not entitled to a discussion, or to put on a show to rile up the crowd or players. I would have engaged him, and explain what the pitcher did, then send him to the dugout. When he went to the mound and started the theatrics, he has now punched his own ticket, and should be dumped immediately.

2) Post Ejection Game Mgt
After you have run him, do not turn away and let him chase you. Tell him what he did, and why you ran him, and that it is time for him to go. Your partner should be on the way, and when you turn your back to go to your position, your partner is to get between the 2 of you, and escort him to the exit. This is the same at any level of baseball. He is to be out of site and sound.

3) It is your job to write the ejection report, call your assignor right after the game with the facts. It is not your job to discuss anything with the T/D during the game. Move on from there.

Good Luck!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

You ejected at the exact same point I would've. His gesture was no different than a batter drawing a line with his bat.

As I posted earlier, when you work for someone, you follow their direction or you leave. You made the choice that was right for you and I likely would've made a similar choice in this type of tournament.

Me, too.

[charliej47]

Never work for that group or with that partner again

[RPatrino]

I have worked in some organizations/leagues where the coaches rule the roost. It is a very hard place to work as an umpire/UIC.

You have a choice, submit to their will and become a puppet, or live by your principles and leave. Once you give up your integrity as an umpire, you have nothing.

[Publius]

I would have done it differently.

As an independent contractor, and working within the framework of FED rules, I would not have restarted any game where an ejected participant was still within sight or sound of the field. The UIC would have to remove me (I wouldn't quit) in the middle of the tourney if he didn't like it. Then I'd get paid for every game he contracted me for, not just the ones I worked.

[LKTexasBlue]

Never! Never! Compromise your integrity as an Umpire. Remember, there are a lot of baseball games and a lot of associations; just find another association. And this time ask a few questions before making a commitment to join the association. You did the RIGHT THING!

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue

I was working a 14U tournament last weekend utilizing Fed rules.

So now I am looking for opinions and constructive criticism.

Was I right to toss?
Was I right to quit?
Should I have expected my partner and the UIC to back me up even if they disagreed?
Could I have done something in a better way?

Yes
Yes
Yes

YES, You put the coach on the offensive when you said "Were not arguing step Balks." There really is nothing wrong with being a little more approachable.

Just my opinion

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE]Armadillo_Blue]

The coach then turns around and walks over to the PU who is still behind the plate. He and the plate umpire get into a discussion, complete with motions and gestures, as to where the pitcher stepped and why it was a balk. My partner continues this discussion for about three minutes and then the coach leaves the field.

Two innings later the tournament UIC shows up and talks with the coach and then lets him stay there.

After the game is over, the UIC approaches me. I say "I think you will need to find someone else to work the rest of the games today" He asks me what is up and I relate the above events. He then tells me that I was wrong to eject the coach.

What do you guys think?

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
I echo Rich and Garth

Your OP is why coaches are allowed to get away "with murder" It's a pretty good bet that this coach acted this way before and no-one did anything about it.

Hopefully there is another association around your area which you can join.

First your partner kept talking to the coach after the EJ and the UIC basically through you "under the bus" when he went aginst you and said
to the coach he can stay there.

You were absolutely correct in taking your money for the games you worked and left because if you did do another game the UIC gave you no credibility to Control or manage the game because he would over-turn you anyway.

Perhaps this league is a money maker and the UIC kisses you know what for these games and doesn't want to make waves.

In any event as mentioned hopefully you can find another association that backs up the umpires.

Pete Booth

[Rcichon]

Good ej.

Don't worry about disconnecting from those games. Chances are when the current faction retires/resigns, politics will change and someone will need Umpires for Tournaments again.

Similar sitch happened to me at this time last year. After much bru-ha-ha [sp?] from the TD, their UIC invited me back again. Here-we-go!

[DG]

I would have went to A and let PU eject him for coming out to the mound instead of engaging in discussion with him.

If I was PU, after the ejection the game would not start until he is out of sight and sound.

The only two games I have ever forfeited were because ejected managers wouldn't leave.

I wouldn't work this league/tournament again. In fact, after my first forfeit they asked I not come back, so I didn't. Anybody who thinks an ejected manager can hang around is not dealing with a full deck.

UIC is a Smitty.