no-charge zone

[eck]

sorry if this is a subject that's beaten to death here... I just found the site by doing a google search

I'd love to hear some sort of official ruling on a trend I'm seeing in the NBA regarding the no-charge zone.

Last night during game 5 of the finals, there was a play where Teyshon Prince drove the lane and ran into Horry under the basket.

Horry was definately stationary, and had definately established position... but his heel was indeed in the no-charge zone. He also did not commit a shooting foul by slapping T's arms or anything... he simply stood there... and if his heel had been outside the zone, there's no doubt it would have been called charging.

I understand that charging should NOT have been called... but in my interpretation of the rules, *NO* foul should have been called... instead, they called Horry for blocking. WHY?

In reading the rules on nba.com, I can't find anything that would support the call of blocking in this situation.

here's the link to the block/charge page on their site:
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c....av=ArticleList

It seems refs are seeing the no-charge zone as an automatic-blocking zone.

what say you?

[ChuckElias]

Hi eck. Welcome to the forum. Your question is a decent one and (as you suspect) has already been discussed a little bit. But before we talk about the play you mention, I need to do my standard "no-charge zone" lecture. Please bear with me.

The idea that the NBA's semi-circle is a "no-charge zone" is a widespread misconception. There's no such thing as a no-charge zone. The semi-circle is officially called the Restricted Area (RA), but the important thing is that there actually can be a charge (offensive foul) when contact occurs within the Restricted Area. Those circumstances are very strictly defined, however.

Just to clear up a little:

1) The RA only applies to a secondary (or "help") defender. If A1 drives to the basket and his defender B1 stays with him all the way to the basket, then A1 could be called for an offensive foul, even if the contact occurs in the RA.

2) The RA rules do not apply at all if the play originates within the LDB, the Lower Defensive Box. The LDB is a box that is bounded by the the bottom of the jump circle and the endline, and extends 3' on either side of the lane. If you look at the court diagram at http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1....av=ArticleList ,you can see the markings for the 3' "post up" mark outside the lane if you look closely. If the play starts in that box, then anybody can take a charge, even in the RA. (This is what happened on the Wallace play in Game 1. He rebounded the ball within the LDB, so that's where the play started. Therefore, no RA rules apply.)

3) Even if a secondary defender is within the RA, the offensive player can still be called for an offensive foul if he pushes or "clears out" with the off arm.

4) It's also possible for contact to occur in the RA, but have no effect on the play and in those situations, the official is allowed to ignore the contact and let play continue without calling any foul at all.

So now, when you're talking rules with your buddies, you can sound really cool and knowledgable by talking about the RA, instead of the "no-charge zone".

Ok, so let's talk about the play that you mentioned. After watching the replay, many here are convinced that Horry was in fact completely outside the RA. Additionally, many here agree with you that it looked like an offensive foul. It's possible that the official on the floor simply missed the call. I'm sure that the crew scrutinized that play with their league observer a lot harder than any of us did.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are right and Horry's foot was on the semi-circle. In that case, the official has only two choices. It can only be a blocking foul or a "no-call". Why? Because the play originated outside the LDB, and Horry was definitely the secondary defender. So Horry's not allowed to make contact in the RA.

I don't remember it clearly, but I think Prince went to the floor after the contact; and if that happened, then it's hard to see how the official could have ruled it incidental contact. If the contact prevented Prince from making a normal landing, then he was definitely put at a disadvantage. That would have to be a blocking foul.

So my own opinion is that if Horry had been in the RA, then the blocking foul would've been the correct call.

I hope that's mildly interesting and/or helpful to you.

[Edited by ChuckElias on Jun 20th, 2005 at 05:55 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Please bear with me.

GROWL!

How's that?

[eck]

so what you're saying is...

1) The RA only applies to a secondary (or "help") defender. If A1 drives to the basket and his defender B1 stays with him all the way to the basket, then A1 could be called for an offensive foul, even if the contact occurs in the RA.
*AND* If a help defender B2 establishes position in the RA and A1 initiates contact by driving the lane in a play which originated outside the lane, then a blocking call should be made against B2?

fyi, you contradicted yourself in your last statement saying only an "offensive or no call" could be made... hehe

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by eck

fyi, you contradicted yourself in your last statement saying only an "offensive or no call" could be made... hehe

It's not a contradiction, it's the vernacular. There are 3 choices: block (foul on defense), charge (foul on offense), or nothing. Chuck's saying ony 2 of those 3 choices apply.

[eck]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

It's not a contradiction, it's the vernacular. There are 3 choices: block (foul on defense), charge (foul on offense), or nothing. Chuck's saying ony 2 of those 3 choices apply.

right but after saying only an offensive or no-call could be called, he said it should be a defensive foul. It was just a simple mistype...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Hi eck. Welcome to the forum. Your question is a decent one and (as you suspect) has already been discussed a little bit. But before we talk about the play you mention, I need to do my standard "no-charge zone" lecture. Please bear with me.

The idea that the NBA's semi-circle is a "no-charge zone" is a widespread misconception. There's no such thing as a no-charge zone. The semi-circle is officially called the Restricted Area (RA), but the important thing is that there actually can be a charge (offensive foul) when contact occurs within the Restricted Area. Those circumstances are very strictly defined, however.

Just to clear up a little:

1) The RA only applies to a secondary (or "help") defender. If A1 drives to the basket and his defender B1 stays with him all the way to the basket, then A1 could be called for an offensive foul, even if the contact occurs in the RA.

2) The RA rules do not apply at all if the play originates within the LDB, the Lower Defensive Box. The LDB is a box that is bounded by the the bottom of the jump circle and the endline, and extends 3' on either side of the lane. If you look at the court diagram at http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1....av=ArticleList ,you can see the markings for the 3' "post up" mark outside the lane if you look closely. If the play starts in that box, then anybody can take a charge, even in the RA. (This is what happened on the Wallace play in Game 1. He rebounded the ball within the LDB, so that's where the play started. Therefore, no RA rules apply.)

3) Even if a secondary defender is within the RA, the offensive player can still be called for an offensive foul if he pushes or "clears out" with the off arm.

4) It's also possible for contact to occur in the RA, but have no effect on the play and in those situations, the official is allowed to ignore the contact and let play continue without calling any foul at all.

So now, when you're talking rules with your buddies, you can sound really cool and knowledgable by talking about the RA, instead of the "no-charge zone".

Ok, so let's talk about the play that you mentioned. After watching the replay, many here are convinced that Horry was in fact completely outside the RA. Additionally, many here agree with you that it looked like an offensive foul. It's possible that the official on the floor simply missed the call. I'm sure that the crew scrutinized that play with their league observer a lot harder than any of us did.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are right and Horry's foot was on the semi-circle. In that case, the official has only two choices. It can only be an offensive foul or a "no-call". Why? Because the play originated outside the LDB, and Horry was definitely the secondary defender. So Horry's not allowed to make contact in the RA.

I don't remember it clearly, but I think Prince went to the floor after the contact; and if that happened, then it's hard to see how the official could have ruled it incidental contact. If the contact prevented Prince from making a normal landing, then he was definitely put at a disadvantage. That would have to be a blocking foul.

So my own opinion is that if Horry had been in the RA, then the blocking foul would've been the correct call.

I hope that's mildly interesting and/or helpful to you.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by eck

right but after saying only an offensive or no-call could be called, he said it should be a defensive foul. It was just a simple mistype...

Oh.

I'll take your word for it. Yer nuts if you think I'm gonna wade through that thing again.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by eck
It was just a simple mistype...

Yup, and I've corrected it. Sorry for that.