Ref's talking with fans

[paparada]

I have officiated volleyball and softball for about 15 years. This year my daughter is playing middle school basketball. I have seen numerous times when during the game and between periods, the refs are talking with fans regarding calls made, not made, complaints, etc... I don't believe this is a positive thing to do during a game. I have spoken with fans/spectators after the game but not during. Is this a common practice in basketball? You may or may not be aware that here in Pittsburgh, PA, there is a parent currently being charge with attacking a basketball official. Numerous people have been on the witness stand stating this official did not touch this parent but, I wonder if maybe there was a conversation as I have outlined that may have added to this parents displeasure and ultimately the attack. Please do no misunderstand, there is never a need for violence.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by paparada
I have officiated volleyball and softball for about 15 years. This year my daughter is playing middle school basketball. I have seen numerous times when during the game and between periods, the refs are talking with fans regarding calls made, not made, complaints, etc... I don't believe this is a positive thing to do during a game. I have spoken with fans/spectators after the game but not during. Is this a common practice in basketball? You may or may not be aware that here in Pittsburgh, PA, there is a parent currently being charge with attacking a basketball official. Numerous people have been on the witness stand stating this official did not touch this parent but, I wonder if maybe there was a conversation as I have outlined that may have added to this parents displeasure and ultimately the attack. Please do no misunderstand, there is never a need for violence.

I admit I've chatted it up with fans during games. Always in a joking kind of way when I know it will be taken lightly, and only for a quick second. I don't find that harmful in any way. OK there was that one time I told a coach who was sitting in the stands to shut up, but that doesn't count . What does bug me is one particular official I've worked with a few times likes to chat it up with everyone before the game. He'll go into the stands during the 15 minute warm-up and before that (in his uniform no less). He chats it up with coaches, some more than others (in his uniform). He chats it up with everyone and anyone, for an uncomfortably long time. I figure he just wants everyone to like him a lot. It bugs the crap out of me. It's wrong in so many ways.

I bet Juulie will know who I'm talking about...

[Edited by Smitty on Jan 12th, 2005 at 05:32 PM]

[JRutledge]

As a general rule I would not talk to fans, but that is not always the case. Sometimes the talk you have with fans is small talk or about them getting in the way or them giving you the ball back. I guess it would depend on what was being said. We are after all human beings. We are not robots out there. I guess I would have to hear more about what was said and how much was said. It is a lower level game and it is very possible that he might know someone in the stands and that was the nature of the conversation. Who knows until you clarify?

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Smitty

I admit I've chatted it up with fans during games. Always in a joking kind of way when I know it will be taken lightly, and only for a quick second. I don't find that harmful in any way. OK there was that one time I told a coach who was sitting in the stands to shut up, but that doesn't count . What does bug me is one particular official I've worked with a few times likes to chat it up with everyone before the game. He'll go into the stands during the 15 minute warm-up and before that (in his uniform no less). He chats it up with coaches, some more than others (in his uniform). He chats it up with everyone and anyone, for an uncomfortably long time. I figure he just wants everyone to like him a lot. It bugs the crap out of me. It's wrong in so many ways.

I bet Juulie will know who I'm talking about...

[Edited by Smitty on Jan 12th, 2005 at 05:32 PM]

Which one?!

[blindzebra]

It's not a great idea, but I'd bet we have all done it at one time or another.

I have done it in youth games several times. Letting them know you are a person and not just a striped shirt can be a good thing.

I once had a high school game back in Kansas. This small town would all turn out for the game, and these older men were notorious for getting on the officials. They would sit in the front row, mid-court.

On the ride there we talked about the issue and we figured we'd let them no they'd have no impact on our game. We went to them during warm ups and said,"So you are the guys we will have to hear all game, right?" They laughed and said,"That depends on how bad you guys are."

The first call of the game was a block/charge right in front of them, that went against them, I just shot them a glance and winked.

Start of the 2nd quarter and I'm about to administer the throw in, and I'm sweating pretty good. They said,"You must be drinking too much beer." I wiped my hand across my face and said,"Why you need some?"

We did not hear anything from them the rest of the game, and they actually invited us for beers after the game.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Which one?!

You have email...

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by blindzebra
...I'm sweating pretty good. They said,"You must be drinking too much beer."

Is that why I'm sweating so much? I thought I was just old and fat.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by Smitty

I admit I've chatted it up with fans during games">games. Always in a joking kind of way when I know it will be taken lightly, and only for a quick second. I don't find that harmful in any way. OK there was that one time I told a coach who was sitting in the stands to shut up, but that doesn't count . What does bug me is one particular official I've worked with a few times likes to chat it up with everyone before the game. He'll go into the stands during the 15 minute warm-up and before that (in his uniform no less). He chats it up with coaches, some more than others (in his uniform). He chats it up with everyone and anyone, for an uncomfortably long time. I figure he just wants everyone to like him a lot. It bugs the crap out of me. It's wrong in so many ways.

I bet Juulie will know who I'm talking about...

[Edited by Smitty on Jan 12th, 2005 at 05:32 PM]

Feelin a lil' left out Smitty?

Not the crowd favorite?

When is it ok to talk to fans?

Maybe to defuse situations before they occur?

Maybe to let them know you are the referee?

Maybe to let them know you are there and are human?

[Smitty]

Originally posted by thumpferee

Feelin a lil' left out Smitty?

Not the crowd favorite?

When is it ok to talk to fans?

Maybe to defuse situations before they occur?

Maybe to let them know you are the referee?

Maybe to let them know you are there and are human?

I'm not sure what you're implying. I think it's unprofessional to talk to fans during the 15 minute warm-ups before the game. I think it's unprofessional to talk to and joke with one coach for a sustained amount of time and not talk to the other coach during that 15 minute period of time. I think we should never display any sort of behavior that might be construed as favoritism toward one team. I also think there are times we can talk to the fams during the game that can be done under the radar and may or may not be appropriate. What's your specific problem with what I said before?

[tmp44]

Originally posted by paparada
You may or may not be aware that here in Pittsburgh, PA, there is a parent currently being charge with attacking a basketball official.

Where in Pittsburgh paparada? Washington County here. Also, since you are from this area, if you have a chance please read my post on Ronny Bell's Trial (Official Attacked Trial thread) and let me know what you think about my sitch since you're familiar with the PA law.

[thumpferee]

Double standard.

Where in your original post does it say 15 minutes prior to gametime?

You even said you do it yourself!

Quoting: I admit I've chatted it up with fans during games" Always in a joking kind of way when I know it will be taken lightly, and only for a quick second. I don't find that harmful in any way. OK there was that one time I told a coach who was sitting in the stands to shut up, but that doesn't count

When do you draw the line?

I am not trying to be argumentative here, just wondering where you are coming from.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Double standard.

Where in your original post does it say 15 minutes prior to gametime?

Right here: He'll go into the stands during the 15 minute warm-up and before that (in his uniform no less).


You even said you do it yourself!

Quoting: I admit I've chatted it up with fans during games" Always in a joking kind of way when I know it will be taken lightly, and only for a quick second. I don't find that harmful in any way. OK there was that one time I told a coach who was sitting in the stands to shut up, but that doesn't count

When do you draw the line?

I am not trying to be argumentative here, just wondering where you are coming from.

You're right, I did admit I do it myself. I do it when I'm waiting to inbound the ball and I'm near a fan who I have heard say something and will say something back in a joking manner. That's about it. I think that's ok.

What I have a problem with is when an official chats for a long period of time with the home fans (or the visiting fans) once we have officially entered the game (that's the 15 minute mark of warm-ups). I think it's wrong to do it before that time as well if you are in uniform. I'm talking about long conversations, so it's clear you are friends with these people. Or the coaching staff of one team. I just think it's inappropriate. That's where I draw the line. Is that a double standard? I really don't think so. If I could be convinced it was, I would change the way I do things. I don't want to be perceived that way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Smitty

[/B]

I think it's unprofessional to talk to fans during the 15 minute warm-ups before the game. I think it's unprofessional to talk to and joke with one coach for a sustained amount of time and not talk to the other coach during that 15 minute period of time. I think we should never display any sort of behavior that might be construed as favoritism toward one team. I also think there are times we can talk to the fams during the game that can be done under the radar and may or may not be appropriate.
[/B][/QUOTE]I think that I agree with you completely, Smitty. I also think that's pretty much the same as the instructions that we hand out to our officials, as to how our association expects them to act at a game.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Smitty


You're right, I did admit I do it myself. I do it when I'm waiting to inbound the ball and I'm near a fan who I have heard say something and will say something back in a joking manner. That's about it. I think that's ok.

What I have a problem with is when an official chats for a long period of time with the home fans (or the visiting fans) once we have officially entered the game (that's the 15 minute mark of warm-ups). I think it's wrong to do it before that time as well if you are in uniform. I'm talking about long conversations, so it's clear you are friends with these people. Or the coaching staff of one team. I just think it's inappropriate. That's where I draw the line. Is that a double standard? I really don't think so. If I could be convinced it was, I would change the way I do things. I don't want to be perceived that way.

Well I am not sure anyone said there was a conversation that was for a long period of time. That is different than making a comment or two when you are standing right in front of a fan. But I disagree with you about having a conversation with someone during warm-ups. I go places where people know me very well. I will have people approach me and start a conversation with me or greet me. I am not going to just ignore them. Now that does not mean I will go on and on with them, but it might be a couple of minutes depending on who the person is or what they say to me. I will not go into the stands shaking hands and kissing babies. To me this is a case by case basis. I know if I step on the foot of a fan near the end line, I will apologize to them. That is speaking to the fans is it not?

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Well I am not sure anyone said there was a conversation that was for a long period of time. That is different than making a comment or two when you are standing right in front of a fan. But I disagree with you about having a conversation with someone during warm-ups. I go places where people know me very well. I will have people approach me and start a conversation with me or greet me. I am not going to just ignore them. Now that does not mean I will go on and on with them, but it might be a couple of minutes depending on who the person is or what they say to me. I will not go into the stands shaking hands and kissing babies. To me this is a case by case basis. I know if I step on the foot of a fan near the end line, I will apologize to them. That is speaking to the fans is it not?

Peace

I have to say I don't get it. You seem to think that changing at the gym is a very important part of being professional. But you'll talk for a couple minutes with fans during pre-game warm-ups when we're supposed to be watching the players. I think we can talk to friends before or after the game, out of uniform. Once we walk on the court, it's all business. I'm just tring to understand your idea of professionalism.