what would you have done

[refnrev]

Last week I got a call from a coach/AD from a small school about 20 miles away asking about a date for an upcoming conference championship tourney. Seems at the first of the year they made a contract with a first year official who I've heard hasn't performed too well on the court. This coach/AD is a class act and has very little bad to say about anyone, but has caught lots of flack from parents, fans because of this guy's performance. This is a conference with very small rural schools and all they have are volleyball and basketball so their conference tourneys are real imprtant to these folks. The administration was going to cancel this guy's contract and wanted me to come.
I told her I had a 5/6 girls game(something I only do 2 or 3 of a year out of loyalty for schools that gave me games when I was first getting started) at a nearby school that night. I couldn't cancel but would be glad to switch with the other ref if he'd be willing to do so.
To make a long story longer, the principal called and explained to him that they needed someone with a little more experience for a conference championship tourney and that they had someone who would switch games with him. At first he agreed, then called the school back and told them he had a contract with them and he was coming.
I was surprised because I personally don't want to go to a school that I know doesn't want me or thinks I'm not ready.
Would you have offered the switch like I did, or do you think that was out of line? What would you have done if you were him?

[JRutledge]

Well we have contracts in this state. Any contract not honored by the school without the permission of the officials can be fined and possibly forfeit games depending on how egregious the action is. And legally there could be some action as well. That is the point of the contract. It just does not make someone able to just get out of the contract because they just do not like the circumstances of who is officiating the game. If the school breaks the contract they have to pay the officials the full amount of the game fee. That can even be the case if officials show up and were not properly informed of a cancellation.

Nine,

I disagree with your assessment of what a first year official can or cannot do. That might apply to some officials, but not all. I know officials that got varsity games in their first year because there was no one else available. Maybe it is not ideal, but to say they have no business is going a bit far. There are some officials in their 20th year that have no business working varsity games. Years of experience are not the end all be all of officiating ability. This post is not about whether a first year should work a game or not, it is based on what happen with a contract. All I know is that if they want to save themselves with legal fees, they might want to honor the contract by paying the officials to stay home. Then they need to find another official to work the game. I know that usually a single game only pays at the most $60 here. I do not know if it is worth jeopardizing more money trying to fight a law suit of some kind. Contract in this county are usually considered binding unless there is something legally that is unfair. I am not a lawyer, but I can watch any judge show and that much out.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by nine01c
I'm not quite sure how to answer because we do not sign any contracts to officiate sports in Massachusetts high schools.
If everyone understood that the contract was binding, I would have told the AD that you would be glad to take the HS playoff game if it becomes available (by the other referee releasinhg her from the contract). It would be up to her to handle how to get out of it.

I gotta wonder if there's something else going on here. I agree that it's the school's issue. Maybe they didn't like some of his calls, or feel they lost a game because of him. I also agree about signing a first year ref to a championship tourney at the beginning of the tourney. There may be more to the story than we're getting.

[Snake~eyes]

Well form your story, you said you already had a game? I would have said I had a game and couldn't do anything for them. I don't see any advantage in trading games with this other guy?

[ChrisSportsFan]

I'm with rainmaker, it seems like we might be missing an important piece of information regarding this situation.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by nine01c

Snake~eyes: Are you saying that you would not give up a 5/6 grade rec game to work a high school varsity championship tournament game? Although it is honorable to stick to your commitment, I'm sure the 5/6 league would understand if you explain the opportunity offered to you.

No, for some reason I thought they were the same level. My bad.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by refnrev
Last week I got a call from a coach/AD from a small school about 20 miles away asking about a date for an upcoming conference championship tourney. Seems at the first of the year they made a contract with a first year official who I've heard hasn't performed too well on the court. This coach/AD is a class act and has very little bad to say about anyone, but has caught lots of flack from parents, fans because of this guy's performance. This is a conference with very small rural schools and all they have are volleyball and basketball so their conference tourneys are real imprtant to these folks. The administration was going to cancel this guy's contract and wanted me to come.
I told her I had a 5/6 girls game(something I only do 2 or 3 of a year out of loyalty for schools that gave me games when I was first getting started) at a nearby school that night. I couldn't cancel but would be glad to switch with the other ref if he'd be willing to do so.
To make a long story longer, the principal called and explained to him that they needed someone with a little more experience for a conference championship tourney and that they had someone who would switch games with him. At first he agreed, then called the school back and told them he had a contract with them and he was coming.
I was surprised because I personally don't want to go to a school that I know doesn't want me or thinks I'm not ready.
Would you have offered the switch like I did, or do you think that was out of line? What would you have done if you were him?

The Coach/AD is not a class act. She told you she did not like the original official that she had contracted for the game and is giving you all of this information. Based upon that information alone I would have told the AD that I was not open. All you would have had to do is tell you are not available. Why not officiate the game? Even if you were open it would be unethical and unprofessiona for you take the place of an official to which the school still had a contractural obligation. The school felt it made a mistake hiring the official. The school may well have made a mistake, but the school first needs to take care of its obligation to the originally contracted official before looking for a new one.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by nine01c
OK, I take it back. There are SOME refs who are ready for varsity the first time they wear stripes. About .01% (unscientific finding). Apparently the ref in question wasn't one of the ready ones. If they are in a V game because there is no one else available, then I guess they do have business being there (too bad for them). Of course years of existence do not equal competence (20 year vets who lack in every way). However, the top-notch officials certainly have had significant amounts of actual game experience to reach their level of excellence. Even thay had to take baby steps before they could walk and then run.

Well I worked varsity basketball my first year with a license. I got my shot by working a make up game that was rescheduled because of some snow storms in my first season. I worked about 5 girlÂ’s basketball games and 2 or 3 boy's varsity games. One of these games was to have a 3 Man crew. I worked the game and did well enough that I got a shot at these schools and many other places. Did I mess up, of course? Was it really noticeable? Of course it was not. Actually I hustled and was pretty consistent and was seen better than many veterans. I have been working varsity almost exclusively since my second year of officiating. I can also confidently say that all varsity games are not made the same. I worked mostly Class A games (small schools in a two class system) and schools that were not that good or were not making a lot of waves in the playoffs. Most of these teams did not play even close to the rim. Now the teams I work play way above the rim depending on the program. It took some time to really adjust to that style of ball then it did to just work a varsity game. It has worked well for me.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by nine01c
JRut: I'm sure you are a very competent official, and have been from the very beginning. I also know that varsity ball can mean anything from grossly unskilled to highly talented and competitive. I'm glad you got your chances early in your career and obviously you deserved them. Not sure what you mean by first year with a license, maybe you already had beneficial experience. I still think your story is unique. I hate to see a first year guy in over his head. Many referees move up too fast, are NOT ready, and never really improve. There they are (those 20 year vets we see) all these years later, using obsolete mechanics, or just making up their own, not switching on fouls, yada, yada.

To get back to the origin of this thread, the ref in question was not ready (according to the info given) and that's primarily what I was trying to say.

There was a guy at a camp I attended this summer that is working D2 and has never reffed a hs varsity game in his life! Gawd's truth...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by nine01c
To get back to the origin of this thread, the ref in question was not ready (according to the info given) and that's primarily what I was trying to say.

I do not know how you know that. That is all I am trying to say. There are some 30 year veterans I would not want to work with. We cannot know just because we read something on a discussion board.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by nine01c
You're right. He was probably ready.

I did not say he was ready, I just said you do not know for sure. But as a rule I agree that most officials are not ready for that kind of game. But someone decided this official was good enough to work that kind of game. You cannot come back and change your mind with a contract. You should have never given out a contract if there was going to be a problem. Regardless of how many years the official has worked.

Peace

[dblref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

There was a guy at a camp I attended this summer that is working D2 and has never reffed a hs varsity game in his life! Gawd's truth...

I attended George Tolliver's camp a few years ago and all of the instructors were NBA officials. One of the instructors told me that he was invited to a D-1 camp and did his first D-1 game without doing any varsity HS games. I asked him how that happened and he told me that his assignor (HS) thought he was a smart-a** (his term) and would not assign him to varsity games. Guess it worked out fine for him because I see him several times a year doing the NBA games.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
The Coach/AD is not a class act. She told you she did not like the original official that she had contracted for the game and is giving you all of this information. Based upon that information alone I would have told the AD that I was not open. All you would have had to do is tell you are not available. Why not officiate the game? Even if you were open it would be unethical and unprofessional for you take the place of an official to which the school still had a contractural obligation. The school felt it made a mistake hiring the official. The school may well have made a mistake, but the school first needs to take care of its obligation to the originally contracted official before looking for a new one.

Amen to that! The only way I take a game that another official already had booked is if THEY turned it back and my assignor needed a replacement or if I had no knowledge of a previous assignment already in place. Apply the Golden Rule.

As for turning back a 5/6 grade game that I already committed to because I got a better deal to grab a varsity game, it had better be my assignor that is making the change and he had better be controlling both officials in question. How would you like it if the shoe was on the other foot?