Chopping clock vs. starting clock

[Danvrapp]

For the sake of argument, lets say Team A 50, Team B 49.

Team B throw-in under the hoop in Team B's back court. .9 seconds on the clock. B1 heaves the ball (which A1, who's guarding B1, tips) and throws all the way to the front court, where B2 of course launches a quick shot, ball goes in, and the horn goes off.

A1 immediately looks at me and asks why the clock didn't start when she tipped the ball--there's no way it took less than .9 seconds for the ball to make it down court and for B2 to sink the shot.

Let's also assume I chopped time when she tipped it; but, of course, the timer wasn't watching me, just B2.

Didn't happen, but I was thinking what I'd do if it did. Should I have enough in me to wipe the bucket because I have definite knowledge of the clock?

[BBall_Junkie]

yes, wipe the bucket because the clock should have started when you chopped. end of game and A wins

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Danvrapp
For the sake of argument, lets say Team A 50, Team B 49.

Team B throw-in under the hoop in Team B's back court. .9 seconds on the clock. B1 heaves the ball (which A1, who's guarding B1, tips) and throws all the way to the front court, where B2 of course launches a quick shot, ball goes in, and the horn goes off.

A1 immediately looks at me and asks why the clock didn't start when she tipped the ball--there's no way it took less than .9 seconds for the ball to make it down court and for B2 to sink the shot.

Let's also assume I chopped time when she tipped it; but, of course, the timer wasn't watching me, just B2.

Didn't happen, but I was thinking what I'd do if it did. Should I have enough in me to wipe the bucket because I have definite knowledge of the clock?

If you signalled to start the clock with a chop and you think more than .9 elapsed then yes, wipe the bucket.

If you disagree with A1 then hit the showers. Fast.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Danvrapp


Didn't happen, but I was thinking what I'd do if it did. Should I have enough in me to wipe the bucket because I have definite knowledge of the clock?

Why would this be any different than any other point in the game? You saw the tip, you signalled the tip and I would not be surprised if the tape caught the signal or tip as well. Yes, you can wipe off the basket.

Peace

[Smitty]

What exactly do you have definite knowledge of? What would you do if you called it back? Do you just do a "do over" and hope for the best this time? I don't think you can do anything at all unless you saw that the clock didn't start on the tip. And even if you did notice the clock didn't start on the tip and then you let the rest of the play complete, what, by rule, can you do at that point? In those situations I like to confer with the timer before I put the ball in play to watch me and start the clock when I chop it in. It's best to avoid that situation by making sure we're all on the same page, since you have the luxury of the dead ball to take care of it with the timer.

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by Smitty
What exactly do you have definite knowledge of? What would you do if you called it back? Do you just do a "do over" and hope for the best this time?

I think popular concensus is telling me to wipe the bucket since it's a pretty strong argument that it takes more than .9 seconds to throw a ball the length of the court, catch it, and shoot. If coach/timer/fan/player doesn't like it, well, tough cookies

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Danvrapp

I think popular concensus is telling me to wipe the bucket since it's a pretty strong argument that it takes more than .9 seconds to throw a ball the length of the court, catch it, and shoot. If coach/timer/fan/player doesn't like it, well, tough cookies

Don't ever guess. Unless you are absolutely certain, by counting in your head for instance, that more than a second had passed, you just can't guess because someone else says it couldn't happen. I bet it could happen, given a lag time of a couple tenths by the timer even if they started on your chop. If you're relying on someone else, other than your partner, who's feeding you information, you can't do much of anything.

[Hawks Coach]

It can really be 1.9 seconds due to lag time allowance. That said, a length of the court pass probably lasted long enough. If you see a tip, you should start a mental count immediately, and if you finished 2 seconds before release, games is over.

[Camron Rust]

As far as I know, there is no "lag time" on starting the clock. Why? All clock starting events are known and can be well anticipated. The timer "knows" that the referee will be signaling the start any moment. For many clock stopping situations, the timer will not know that it imminent: timeouts, stepping OOB, fouls. They could happen at any time.

On this play, if more then 0.9 sec passed, in my opinion, after the tip, I'm waving off the bucket....I've done exactly that with a quick statement that the ball was touched "here" (pointing to the spot and signaling tip) and the clock didn't start.

[Dan_ref]

In these situations it's always a good idea to keep a count in your head. Then you have definite knowledge.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
It can really be 1.9 seconds due to lag time allowance. That said, a length of the court pass probably lasted long enough. If you see a tip, you should start a mental count immediately, and if you finished 2 seconds before release, games is over.

How so?


I agree that, if the clock only showed 1 second, you could have as much as 1.9. However, if the clock shows 0.9, you can have at most 1.0 seconds.

[ref18]

The key here is definite knowledge. In order to wipe off the basket you must know 2 things:

A:That the timer did not start the clock on your chop
B:That about 1 second has gone by since your chop.

If you know only one, i wouldn't wipe the points. If you know none, the score stands. If you know both, then the points are gone.

[mplagrow]

Let's render this whole argument moot. Anticipate the situation. Go and tell the timer whether he's watching your signal or your partner's signal in any close count situation. I look at the timer if I'm administering the throw and making SURE I have eye contact. There's no rush, get it right!