Player on court during time out

Nevadaref

Whistles & Stripes wrote
So the rule book puts the responsibility on the officials to prohibit practice during a dead ball, but where does it say the players are forbidden and accountable for this? How do your justify this as "unsporting behavior"?

By this language: "This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as..."

WhistlesAndStripes

Nevadaref wrote
By this language: "This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as..."

So you think that walking out onto the court during a timeout to practice a free throw is an unsporting act?:rolleyes:

bob jenkins

Whistles & Stripes wrote
So you think that walking out onto the court during a timeout to practice a free throw is an unsporting act?:rolleyes:

First tell him not to. Then if he continues it's unsporting.

JRutledge

BadNewsRef wrote
How did he get the ball?

This is why I do not give up the basketball. I hold onto it for reasons similar to this.

Peace

Nevadaref

Whistles & Stripes wrote
So you think that walking out onto the court during a timeout to practice a free throw is an unsporting act?:rolleyes:

Absolutely.

What would an NFL referee do if a FG kicker was out on the field practicing during a time-out with 2 seconds left just before his team was to attempt a FG? I don't see any way to not throw a flag and penalize 15 yards for unsporting conduct. There are certain things that players just can't do.

crosscountry55

Whistles & Stripes wrote
So you think that walking out onto the court during a timeout to practice a free throw is an unsporting act?:rolleyes:

He's certainly not afraid to break into jail, is he?

Most likely the player just doesn't know the rule and the coach doesn't either, or he's just oblivious. That's not unsporting. So I say, "hey, stop, you're not allowed to do that; go back to your bench." That's me "prohibiting" the act or conduct, not penalizing it.

Now if my direction is ignored, THAT's unsporting and I would not hesitate to penalize at that point.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nevadaref

Not being aware of the rule isn't an excuse.
Once he does the act, he is subject to being penalized.

If a team isn't aware that having a thrower remain out of bounds is illegal are you going to fail to penalize them?
What about if a team has screeners lock arms while setting a double screen?
Sorry, but it is the responsibility of the coach and team to know the playing rules.

Raymond

If officials stay with the ball there is no need for discussions like this.

bob jenkins

A couple of times this year I have had teams try to use the "whole court" to warm up before the game when the opposing team left for a while. (NCAAW, but I don't think it matters.)

I just told them "no." Issuing a T didn't even come close to entering my mind.

Same thing here.

jTheUmp

Nevadaref wrote
If a team isn't aware that having a thrower remain out of bounds is illegal are you going to fail to penalize them?
What about if a team has screeners lock arms while setting a double screen?
Sorry, but it is the responsibility of the coach and team to know the playing rules.

Those are live-ball actions, practicing during a dead ball is (by definition) a dead-ball action. I think that makes a pretty significant difference.

bob jenkins wrote
A couple of times this year I have had teams try to use the "whole court" to warm up before the game when the opposing team left for a while. (NCAAW, but I don't think it matters.)

I just told them "no." Issuing a T didn't even come close to entering my mind.

Same thing here.

Actually, that's allowed in MN (by state adoption, not by FED rule).

As others have said, there's three ways to prevent this from happening, preferably used in this order:
1) Have the official who will be administering the free throw/throw-in hold the ball during the time-out.
2) "Hey, you can't do that. You need to go back to your bench"
3) Whack.

If you do #1, the other two should never be an issue, unless the player somehow gets a hold of one of the warm-up balls.

so cal lurker

Nevadaref wrote
Not being aware of the rule isn't an excuse.
Once he does the act, he is subject to being penalized.

If a team isn't aware that having a thrower remain out of bounds is illegal are you going to fail to penalize them?
What about if a team has screeners lock arms while setting a double screen?
Sorry, but it is the responsibility of the coach and team to know the playing rules.

Apples and oranges. The T you propose is for doing something unsporting. That has a certain mental element to it, unlike each of your elements.

Don't be the "gotcha" referee. Do your job and don't let him get there -- tell him to stop. If he doesn't stop, well, then he has done something unsporting.

jeremy341a

couldn't you just go Joey Crawford on them and attempt the block shot?

Adam

Whistles & Stripes wrote
So you think that walking out onto the court during a timeout to practice a free throw is an unsporting act?:rolleyes:

bob jenkins wrote
First tell him not to. Then if he continues it's unsporting.

Yep

Adam

Nevadaref wrote
Not being aware of the rule isn't an excuse.
Once he does the act, he is subject to being penalized.

If a team isn't aware that having a thrower remain out of bounds is illegal are you going to fail to penalize them?
What about if a team has screeners lock arms while setting a double screen?
Sorry, but it is the responsibility of the coach and team to know the playing rules.

Since this is being charged under the "not limited to" provision of the unsporting acts, I'm inclined to issue a direction here. If the players fail to comply with my instructions to stop, then a T becomes pretty easy.

I'm going to acknowledge BNR's objection, but the fact is, there are often quite a few balls floating around a gym. Probably not so much in a high school sanctioned game, but it's still possible and not unheard of for little Jimmy to keep a warmup ball in a bag at the bench.

rockyroad

Adam wrote
Since this is being charged under the "not limited to" provision of the unsporting acts, I'm inclined to issue a direction here. If the players fail to comply with my instructions to stop, then a T becomes pretty easy.

I'm going to acknowledge BNR's objection, but the fact is, there are often quite a few balls floating around a gym. Probably not so much in a high school sanctioned game, but it's still possible and not unheard of for little Jimmy to keep a warmup ball in a bag at the bench.

Lots of schools have ball racks that they wheel out for warm-ups and then just move down to the end of the bleachers. Kid could easily run over there and grab one.

Camron Rust

BadNewsRef wrote
If officials stay with the ball there is no need for discussions like this.

True. And in our area, we don't put the ball down at all even though the mechanics book allows for that option.

There is one college assignor in the area, however, that tells his officials to put it on the floor for all timeouts.

Nevadaref

The problem that I have with some of the responses is that one cannot instruct someone to not do something which they've already done. You can't unshoot the practice FTs. That player has now gained an unfair advantage specifically prohibited by the rules. Therefore, I am of the strong opinion that this now must be penalized. That is what restores the balance for the opposing team.

Perhaps a better parallel for this situation is when a team spills water on the court during a time-out. The officials can't just tell them to clean it up. The rule has been infringed. Not only does the court need to be cleaned up, but the team needs to be issued a delay warning or a technical foul if previously warned.

Another analogous situation seems to be changing a jersey inside the visual confines of the gym. Once the team member removes his shirt he has earned the T. You can't tell him to put it back on or to go outside and finish changing. It's too late. The act has been committed and the penalty is warranted.

so cal lurker

Nevadaref wrote
Perhaps a better parallel for this situation is when a team spills water on the court during a time-out. The officials can't just tell them to clean it up. The rule has been infringed. Not only does the court need to be cleaned up, but the team needs to be issued a delay warning or a technical foul if previously warned.

Another analogous situation seems to be changing a jersey inside the visual confines of the gym. Once the team member removes his shirt he has earned the T. You can't tell him to put it back on or to go outside and finsihing changing. It's too late. The act has been committed and the penalty is warranted.

The difference is that the rules make it the OFFICIALS' responsibility to make sure the practice doesn't take place rather than directing that it is unsporting behavior. If a player makes it to the FT line with a ball during a TO, then the OFFICIALS have failed to do their job. The same is not true of a water spill or removed shirt.

Dad

Nevadaref wrote
Another analogous situation....

One example is a rule made for teams cheating. Another has almost nothing to do with an unfair advantage.

It's the officials job to make sure the players aren't out on the court to shoot around. If you let it happen, giving the player a T is ridiculous. If my partner is blabbing along to fans or something on the other side of the court I'm telling the player to get back. If he doesn't, then sure, T him up.

JRutledge

BadNewsRef wrote
If officials stay with the ball there is no need for discussions like this.

This is why I have never been and advocate of putting the ball down on the floor during a timeout.

Peace