Continuous Motion (video)

JetMetFan

One clip, two plays.

Thoughts?

JRutledge

I am giving the basket for both. The second play I guess it is when you actually call the foul. And you could make a case that second play is a game interrupter.

Peace

BLydic

Obviously incorrect on the first play. I'm really having a hard time seeing the contact on the second play.

Thoughts? My first was "showcase" and my second was "time and score".

just another ref

First play he traveled before the release.

Second play I don't see a foul.

OKREF

I'm counting both baskets.

STFD

Thanks for posting the clips

I'm counting both baskets although, like others have said I don't have a foul on the second. On the first play, I don't think the official should wait so long before waving it off. If he's not going to count it, do so immediately. Don't wait for the ball to bounce around the rim and go in. Just my opinion.

APG

Count the basket in both plays

Mark Padgett

I'm in the club of those who didn't see a foul on the second play. When working games at this level, we have to remember that "continuation" can't be called like it is in the NBA (where it begins in the parking lot).

Freddy

Help me with this.
Play #1 seems more a matter of "act of shooting", i.e. whether or not the player began "the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" than a matter of "continuous motion."
Is it not correct that continuous motion is reserved for when a foul occurs which prohibits the release of the ball but the continuous motion the player whose act of shooting had begun must be considered so that the proper two FT's be awarded though the ball never got "in flight" due to the foul that occurred while in the act of shooting?
One reason I'm tending to think in this way is that Rule 10 PENALTIES, though specifying conditions where "act of shooting" determine whether one or two FT's are awarded, "continuous motion" is never mentioned as a consideration in any case.
I'm trying to keep "continuous motion" and "act of shooting" as each defined by Rule 4 seperate, though obviously related.
Seems to me that "continuous motion" is becoming sorta an umbrella term describing any foul committed while a player is in the "act of shooting", and I'm struggling with whether that is a good thing.
Any help for my understanding?

APG

Mark Padgett wrote
I'm in the club of those who didn't see a foul on the second play. When working games at this level, we have to remember that "continuation" can't be called like it is in the NBA (where it begins in the parking lot).

Seeing as the rules are pretty much the same at all levels of play, there's no reason why you shouldn't be calling it similar.

The fact of the matter is at the high school level, there are too many officials waving off too many plays that should be in the act, and justify it by saying "this isn't the NBA" or some variation of that statement.

Raymond

just another ref wrote
First play he traveled before the release.

Second play I don't see a foul.

Even if he traveled it's still would be a shooting foul. Wave off the basket and indicate 2 shots.

Either way you don't stand there watching the ball bounce around the rim before waving the shot off.

JRutledge

Travel really? SMDH!!!!

Peace

JugglingReferee

Both are shooting fouls.

JetMetFan

Freddy wrote
Help me with this.
Play #1 seems more a matter of "act of shooting", i.e. whether or not the player began "the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" than a matter of "continuous motion."
Is it not correct that continuous motion is reserved for when a foul occurs which prohibits the release of the ball but the continuous motion the player whose act of shooting had begun must be considered so that the proper two FT's be awarded though the ball never got "in flight" due to the foul that occurred while in the act of shooting?
One reason I'm tending to think in this way is that Rule 10 PENALTIES, though specifying conditions where "act of shooting" determine whether one or two FT's are awarded, "continuous motion" is never mentioned as a consideration in any case.
I'm trying to keep "continuous motion" and "act of shooting" as each defined by Rule 4 seperate, though obviously related.
Seems to me that "continuous motion" is becoming sorta an umbrella term describing any foul committed while a player is in the "act of shooting", and I'm struggling with whether that is a good thing.
Any help for my understanding?

NFHS 4-11-1

Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

JetMetFan

JRutledge wrote
Travel really? SMDH!!!!

Peace

The only thing that shocks me about your response is it took so long 🙂 I had the same reaction to the post as you.

JAR, I have the dribble ending when A1 put both hands on the ball which would make him legal. Where do you have the dribble ending?

BLydic wrote
Thoughts? My first was "showcase" and my second was "time and score".

My first thought on play #2 was "Don't go fishing in another man's pond." C had a better look at that play and let it go, so given it wasn't a felony offense...let it go.

JRutledge

JetMetFan wrote
The only thing that shocks me about your response is it took so long 🙂 I had the same reaction to the post as you.

It took so long because I had a scrimmage this morning for football. I am honestly not shocked it was pointed out, but I cannot believe that even a travel was even an issue.

Peace

Camron Rust

JRutledge wrote
It took so long because I had a scrimmage this morning for football. I am honestly not shocked it was pointed out, but I cannot believe that even a travel was even an issue.

Peace

I agree. I see absolutely nothing in that clip that would make me think travel. Not even close.

The shot should have counted, no question about that either.

In the second play, I don't have a foul at all....but if there was one, the basket should count.

just another ref

JetMetFan wrote
The only thing that shocks me about your response is it took so long 🙂 I had the same reaction to the post as you.

JAR, I have the dribble ending when A1 put both hands on the ball which would make him legal. Where do you have the dribble ending?

his left foot is on the floor when he puts both hands on the ball. it returns to the floor before the release.

JRutledge

Camron Rust wrote
In the second play, I don't have a foul at all....but if there was one, the basket should count.

That is why I called it possiblity a "game interrupter." People do not like the term, but it seems like nothing prevented the player from movement or opportunity to complete a play.

Peace

Raymond

just another ref wrote
his left foot is on the floor when he puts both hands on the ball. it returns to the floor before the release.

That is not even close to accurate. A supervisor would not be too happy if you tried to defend that judgment.