[NFHS] Violation on free throw shooter?

icallfouls

BigBaldGuy wrote
What is going to hurt you more? The two/three players in the lane beating the crap out of each other going for the rebound or the shooter who may have stepped on the line? I am going to choose to watch the players in the marked lane spots more closely.

In a 2 or 3pt game on a last second shot when the shooter is close to the line you are going to be more concerned about rebounds? Everyone in the gym is looking at the location of the shooter, not the rebounders, except you.

Hey partner, did you have a 2 or a 3? BBG: Don't know, I had rebounders

MD Longhorn

icallfouls wrote
In a 2 or 3pt game on a last second shot when the shooter is close to the line you are going to be more concerned about rebounds? Everyone in the gym is looking at the location of the shooter, not the rebounders, except you.

Hey partner, did you have a 2 or a 3? BBG: Don't know, I had rebounders

I had a 1. We're talking about a free throw shooter here. (Or do you set up players in marked lane spots for 2 and 3 points shots as well???)

icallfouls

MD Longhorn wrote
I had a 1. We're talking about a free throw shooter here. (Or do you set up players in marked lane spots for 2 and 3 points shots as well???)

The conversation moved to 3 point line. Inside or outside arc. So I made the jump, perhaps BBG did not. My bad 🙂

BigBaldGuy

icallfouls wrote
In a 2 or 3pt game on a last second shot when the shooter is close to the line you are going to be more concerned about rebounds? Everyone in the gym is looking at the location of the shooter, not the rebounders, except you.

Hey partner, did you have a 2 or a 3? BBG: Don't know, I had rebounders

Totally different play...apples and oranges.

Adam

BigBaldGuy wrote
Totally different play...apples and oranges.

Not really. On a FT, there is nothing else going on until the ball hits something. No reason to be watching the players on the lane so closely you can't see the position of the shooter's feet with regard to the line.

JetMetFan

BigBaldGuy wrote
What is going to hurt you more? The two/three players in the lane beating the crap out of each other going for the rebound or the shooter who may have stepped on the line? I am going to choose to watch the players in the marked lane spots more closely.

That's a good philosophy but...in NFHS you're generally not dealing with a personal foul situation on FTs until the potential for a FT violation is over since a player's feet aren't allowed to break the plane of the FT lane line until the ball hits the rim, etc. As the rule stands now there's not much reason to miss a violation in place of a foul.

BigBaldGuy

Adam wrote
Not really. On a FT, there is nothing else going on until the ball hits something. No reason to be watching the players on the lane so closely you can't see the position of the shooter's feet with regard to the line.

The Center is responsible for the opposite side of the lane for violations correct? Nothing to look at? In an average year how many free violations do you have (not including end of game when they are trying to miss)...compared to how many violations/fouls by players in marked lane spaces?

Adam

BigBaldGuy wrote
The Center is responsible for the opposite side of the lane for violations correct? Nothing to look at? In an average year how many free violations do you have (not including end of game when they are trying to miss)...compared to how many violations/fouls by players in marked lane spaces?

A total of four players, all within a very short angle of view. There isn't any reason to be watching any of them so closely you can't see the other three. I'm not saying whether you should call the toe on the line, but there really is no reason to say you can't see it.

JetMetFan

Adam wrote
A total of four players, all within a very short angle of view. There isn't any reason to be watching any of them so closely you can't see the other three. I'm not saying whether you should call the toe on the line, but there really is no reason to say you can't see it.

By the book the C (in 3) and the T (in 2) is responsible for just three players on FTs - the shooter and the top two lane spaces on the opposite side. Even more reason to be able to see things.

upprdeck

we have a player whose routine is to accept the ball and for some reason. he kicks one foot to multiple times on on the line like hs is trying to dry the floor, much like a batter does on his back foot in the dirt in baseball.. he often puts his foot 2-3 inches over the line and it has never been called in the two years i have watched him play.. of course i have seen players with their feet 4-5 inches over the line shoot shots with no call as well.

Adam

upprdeck wrote
we have a player whose routine is to accept the ball and for some reason. he kicks one foot to multiple times on on the line like hs is trying to dry the floor, much like a batter does on his back foot in the dirt in baseball.. he often puts his foot 2-3 inches over the line and it has never been called in the two years i have watched him play.. of course i have seen players with their feet 4-5 inches over the line shoot shots with no call as well.

I don't call this, unless he doesn't pull it back before he shoots. By rule it's a violation, but I'm not going to be the only one calling it.

On the last one, I'm not sure what you're describing.

BillyMac

Adam wrote
I don't call this unless he doesn't pull it back before he shoots.

First time, I'm probably telling him to knock it off. After that, it's a violation.

Sharpshooternes

Adam wrote
I don't call this, unless he doesn't pull it back before he shoots. By rule it's a violation, but I'm not going to be the only one calling it.

On the last one, I'm not sure what you're describing.

Would you grant the same leniency to defender in the top lane space who decides to go talk to his coach well after the shooter has the ball but well before he actually takes the shot? Didn't really disconcert but violated none the less.

Nevadaref

BigBaldGuy wrote
Use your commonsense on this play...that would be my opinion.

If he/she just stepped on the line...didn't rush in for the rebound...I may have not seen it 😉😉😉

Do you do the same thing when a player just steps on the sideline, but doesn't go around the defender?

Nevadaref

upprdeck wrote
we have a player whose routine is to accept the ball and for some reason. he kicks one foot to multiple times on on the line like hs is trying to dry the floor, much like a batter does on his back foot in the dirt in baseball.. he often puts his foot 2-3 inches over the line and it has never been called in the two years i have watched him play.. of course i have seen players with their feet 4-5 inches over the line shoot shots with no call as well.

That's just disappointing from an officiating standpoint.
Want to bet that this player knocks off this nonsense after the first time that he gets penalized for it? If people would just officiate the game according to the rules a great deal of these silly situations would disappear.

As for your observation of players shooting 4-5 inches over the line without a violation being called, I can only say WOW!

Raymond

upprdeck wrote
we have a player whose routine is to accept the ball and for some reason. he kicks one foot to multiple times on on the line like hs is trying to dry the floor, much like a batter does on his back foot in the dirt in baseball.. he often puts his foot 2-3 inches over the line and it has never been called in the two years i have watched him play.. of course i have seen players with their feet 4-5 inches over the line shoot shots with no call as well.

Who is "we" and what level of play is this?

JetMetFan

Nevadaref wrote
That's just disappointing from an officiating standpoint.
Want to bet that this player knocks off this nonsense after the first time that he gets penalized for it? If people would just officiate the game according to the rules a great deal of these silly situations would disappear.

Amen. If someone, somewhere had called the violation once right when it happened, it stops. Cold. The way the situation is described this isn't an accident. He knows what he's doing and he'll keep doing it until someone says stop.

As my BV assignor would say, "Sometimes y'all cause your own headaches out there."

Adam

Sharpshooternes wrote
Would you grant the same leniency to defender in the top lane space who decides to go talk to his coach well after the shooter has the ball but well before he actually takes the shot? Didn't really disconcert but violated none the less.

What did he do that was against the rules?

Camron Rust

Adam wrote
What did he do that was against the rules?

Are you really asking that question? Or is there some hidden point you're making?

Adam

Camron Rust wrote
Are you really asking that question? Or is there some hidden point you're making?

I completely missed it, because I read passed one little word. 🙄

Sharpshooternes wrote
Would you grant the same leniency to defender in the top lane space who decides to go talk to his coach well after the shooter has the ball but well before he actually takes the shot? Didn't really disconcert but violated none the less.

To answer the question, no, I wouldn't.

The reason:
I would not be the only official in my association calling it; the same cannot be said for the quick toe drag by the shooter.