Another buzzer beater?

zm1283

The official that signaled it after they went to the monitor looked like Richard Nixon with the two fingered signal. Then I think he thought the game was over because he started running off the court. I am with Rut....I don't know how you count that after watching the replay. It was pretty conclusive.

The White team's coach looks like he's going to prom too. 😀

deecee

this wasn't even close IMO.

APG

JRutledge wrote
They are usually dependent on the TV feed.

Peace

Exactly...so I'm not sure what the issue is here. That's clearly and obviously a late shot and was so evidently late that I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the 3 officials there and hope they didn't get the same views somehow.

APG

It's also possible they looked at the TV clock instead of looking at the LED lights/game clock and based their decision off of that.

johnny d

APG wrote
It's also possible they looked at the TV clock instead of looking at the LED lights/game clock and based their decision off of that.

This is probably what happened. These officials have probably never used replay before in their careers and are therefore in a bad spot because they are probably unfamiliar with the rules and practical application of using replay to make these types of calls. This situation reminds me of the states that use 2-man throughout the regular season and maybe the beginning of the playoffs, and then switch to 3-man and expect the officials to be experts at the system. It is really kind of ridiculous to expect officials who never use replay system to all of a sudden be thrown into a situation where they have replay available and expect them to completely understand how to use it.

deecee

johnny d wrote
This is probably what happened. These officials have probably never used replay before in their careers and are therefore in a bad spot because they are probably unfamiliar with the rules and practical application of using replay to make these types of calls. This situation reminds me of the states that use 2-man throughout the regular season and maybe the beginning of the playoffs, and then switch to 3-man and expect the officials to be experts at the system. It is really kind of ridiculous to expect officials who never use replay system to all of a sudden be thrown into a situation where they have replay available and expect them to completely understand how to use it.

Whether or not you don't have replay experience the rule is that the LED lights trumps the horn, unless I misread that rule.

JRutledge

deecee wrote
Whether or not you don't have replay experience the rule is that the LED lights trumps the horn, unless I misread that rule.

That also might be something you want to review when you are working a situation where a LED light might come into play.

Peace

SCalScoreKeeper

No good-not even close.

Bad Zebra

SCalScoreKeeper wrote
No good-not even close.

??? Not good. OK. But "Not even close"? I beg to differ. Razor thin in real time...and in slow mo replay.

SamG

APG wrote
It's also possible they looked at the TV clock instead of looking at the LED lights/game clock and based their decision off of that.

APG, I apologize for (almost) everything I said in the other thread. I honestly didn't know there was that much of a discrepancy between clocks in an arena.

FWIW, I know TV shoots the scoreboard so they can make sure they have the score right. I can see someone thinking "why set up the shot clock camera, the clock's on the scoreboard?" for a HS game. Not that I do a lot of games, but I will advocate for using the clock above the backboard for any games I work.

APG

Bad Zebra wrote
??? Not good. OK. But "Not even close"? I beg to differ. Razor thin in real time...and in slow mo replay.

In real time, can see why they'd have counted it (I didn't when I first saw it but that's beside the point). On replay? It wasn't even close...not even a little bit (which is what I'm assuming SCal was referring to).

SamG wrote
APG, I apologize for (almost) everything I said in the other thread. I honestly didn't know there was that much of a discrepancy between clocks in an arena.

FWIW, I know TV shoots the scoreboard so they can make sure they have the score right. I can see someone thinking "why set up the shot clock camera, the clock's on the scoreboard?" for a HS game. Not that I do a lot of games, but I will advocate for using the clock above the backboard for any games I work.

No need to apologize. 😀

bainsey

Anyone know how many states have adopted the NFHS instant replay rule in situtations like these?

johnny d

deecee wrote
Whether or not you don't have replay experience the rule is that the LED lights trumps the horn, unless I misread that rule.

When using replay on clocks with tenths of a second, the reading of zeros is the first thing to look for provided the game clock or time is visible on the replay. The confusion these guys may of had is the super-imposed clock in the bottom left corner which shows the shot to be good. This is not the game clock though. Again, since they probably have little or no experience using replay, they may not be aware that the timer in the corner is not the actual game time, but added by the tv coverage.

buckrog64

Tough spot to be in but that's why they get the "big $$."

Having said that, I was interested in all the people watching the monitor along with the refs. They may not have been sharing opinions with the officials but it did appear the guys in stripes had lots of helpers.

I would like to think the associations would brief the guys on how replay would work if necessary. Not sure about semis but in Iowa replay can be used at the end of the title game, if I remember correctly.

deecee

johnny d wrote
When using replay on clocks with tenths of a second, the reading of zeros is the first thing to look for provided the game clock or time is visible on the replay. The confusion these guys may of had is the super-imposed clock in the bottom left corner which shows the shot to be good. This is not the game clock though. Again, since they probably have little or no experience using replay, they may not be aware that the timer in the corner is not the actual game time, but added by the tv coverage.

Johnny, irrespective of the game clock and what is visible, and assuming all equipment is working the order of what is used to determine the end of the quarter is LED then horn/game-clock. Once again I could have mistaken what was taught in our association meetings.

johnny d

Art. 4. In games with a 10th-of-a-second game clock display and where an official
courtside monitor is used, the reading of zeros on the game clock is to be used to
determine whether a try for goal, a shot-clock violation or a foul occurred before or
after the expiration of time in any period. When the game clock is not visible, the
officials shall verify the original call with the use of the red/LED light(s). When the
red/LED light(s) are not visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized.
When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original
call stands.

This is the replay rule right from the NCAA manual. If I recall correctly the NFHS says nothing other than replay may be used on a state by state basis during the playoffs and offers no further instruction. Until the NFHS or my state offers specific guidelines, I am going to use the college rules if I ever encounter this situation.

deecee

johnny d wrote
Art. 4. In games with a 10th-of-a-second game clock display and where an official
courtside monitor is used, the reading of zeros on the game clock is to be used to
determine whether a try for goal, a shot-clock violation or a foul occurred before or
after the expiration of time in any period. When the game clock is not visible, the
officials shall verify the original call with the use of the red/LED light(s). When the
red/LED light(s) are not visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized.
When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original
call stands.

Thanks for that.

JetMetFan

NFHS 2-2-1 NOTE
A state association may permit game or replay officials to use a replay monitor during state championship series contests to determine if a try for goal at the expiration of time in the fourth quarter or any overtime period (0:00 on the game clock) should be counted, and if so, determine if it is a two- or a three-point goal.

NFHS 1-14
A red light behind each backboard or an LED light on each backboard is permitted to signal that time has expired for a quarter or extra period. In facilities without a red light behind or an LED light on each backboard, the audible timer's signal shall indicate that time has expired.

NFHS 5-6-2
Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.

johnny d

Looks like the NFHS rule regarding replay is the same as college. Use the actual game clock and look for triple 0.