The Visual Field (Screening)

JRutledge

The interpretations I have seen allow for up to two steps if you can see the screen and you must allow a step if they cannot (set legally of course). I do not see distance as being a factor as players can take a step longer than a semi-circle in some situations.

Peace

just another ref

I believe the wording goes something like: .........screening moving opponent outside his visual field, screener must allow the opponent time and distance to change direction. This distance need not exceed two strides. If the screener was stationary in your play, and the opponent took two strides, it is not a foul whether he was in the visual field or not.

fortmoney

Relatively new guy here, are you saying that a screen set directly behind a defender is illegal? No matter how much space the defender is given?

just another ref

fortmoney wrote
Relatively new guy here, are you saying that a screen set directly behind a defender is illegal? No matter how much space the defender is given?

I don't think anybody said that.

billyu2

bainsey wrote
Yesterday's game, freshman boys. A-1 is dribbling in the backcourt, guarded by B-2. A-3 sets a screen in the backcourt, and B-2, who's half A-3's size, takes two steps forward and crashes into the brick wall that is A-3. B-2 goes down in a heap.

I have nothing, as time as distance were in place. B-2 remains down in the backcourt for ten seconds or so, until B-4 snares the defensive rebound, and I immediately whistle.

Coach B plays the "visual field" card, as in "he didn't see him." (Not his words, but that's the gist.) Let's review that.

I consider the visual field to be slightly larger than a semicircle, going from the left side to the right side, as one can turn his neck. While B-2's eyes and head were turned to the right, A-3 was directly in front of him, therefore still within his visual field, if I have this defined correctly.

Thoughts?

The "visual field" has nothing to do with establishing a legal screening position (4-40-2). A legal screen can be within or outside the visual field of the opponent. If set behind (outside the vision) of a stationary opponent only distance (1 step) is required. If the opponent is moving, time and distance are required but whether the screen is within or outside the visual field is not a factor. Actually, "visual field" eventually becomes a responsibility of the person being screened. See 4-40-7.

Adam

bainsey wrote
Coach B plays the "visual field" card, as in "he didn't see him." (Not his words, but that's the gist.) Let's review that.

I consider the visual field to be slightly larger than a semicircle, going from the left side to the right side, as one can turn his neck. While B-2's eyes and head were turned to the right, A-3 was directly in front of him, therefore still within his visual field, if I have this defined correctly.

Thoughts?

Kid gave plenty of time and distance regardless, so the only complaint the coach could have had would have been if the defender knocked the screener down and you called a foul. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Do you always wait until the injured player's team has the ball before blowing it dead?

fortmoney

just another ref wrote
I don't think anybody said that.

Ah ok, I see. I didn't read it correctly. So if a defender is unseen, he must give a step.

bob jenkins

Snaqwells wrote
Do you always wait until the injured player's team has the ball before blowing it dead?

If it's serious, or the player is in further danger, stop play immediately.

Otherwise, wait until the injured player's team has the ball, or the other team stops attacking the goal.

Adam

bob jenkins wrote
If it's serious, or the player is in further danger, stop play immediately.

Otherwise, wait until the injured player's team has the ball, or the other team stops attacking the goal.

I normally wait until the other team either stops attacking or call it right away if they aren't attacking, but isn't there a case play (can't find it) or interp that says to blow the whistle as soon as a shot is taken? Now I'm questioning my recollection, however.

I also realize that adherance to this (even if it's there) is going to be a Rome thing.

Rob1968

bob jenkins wrote
If it's serious, or the player is in further danger, stop play immediately.

Otherwise, wait until the injured player's team has the ball, or the other team stops attacking the goal.

I agree. In a recent training meeting, we were told to "always wait until the opponents finish their attempt to score." I had to tell them that if the injury is serious, stop the play immediately! That might include, an unconscious player, obvious joint dislocation, bleeding, convulsions, etc. Use some common sense and sensitivity.

PG_Ref

Snaqwells wrote
I normally wait until the other team either stops attacking or call it right away if they aren't attacking, but isn't there a case play (can't find it) or interp that says to blow the whistle as soon as a shot is taken? Now I'm questioning my recollection, however.

I also realize that adherance to this (even if it's there) is going to be a Rome thing.

2010-2011 Rules interp ...

SITUATION 4: A1’s unsuccessful try for goal is rebounded by B1. As A1 returns to the floor after the missed try, he/she twists and then grabs the ankle and goes to the floor. B1 passes the ball to B2, who dribbles into the frontcourt and (a) attempts a try for goal which is not successful but is immediately rebounded by B4 and successfully scored; or (b) attempts a three-point try for goal which is successful. RULING: In both (a) and (b), an official stops play by sounding his/her whistle when the try for goal is released by the B player (player/team control ends on the release for a try). In (a), the successful try by B4 is not scored and play is resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), play is resumed with a throw-in to Team A anywhere along the end line. (5-8-2 Note)

BktBallRef

bainsey wrote
...two steps forward...

What more do you need?

BktBallRef

PG_Ref wrote
2010-2011 Rules interp ...

SITUATION 4: A1’s unsuccessful try for goal is rebounded by B1. As A1 returns to the floor after the missed try, he/she twists and then grabs the ankle and goes to the floor. B1 passes the ball to B2, who dribbles into the frontcourt and (a) attempts a try for goal which is not successful but is immediately rebounded by B4 and successfully scored; or (b) attempts a three-point try for goal which is successful. RULING: In both (a) and (b), an official stops play by sounding his/her whistle when the try for goal is released by the B player (player/team control ends on the release for a try). In (a), the successful try by B4 is not scored and play is resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), play is resumed with a throw-in to Team A anywhere along the end line. (5-8-2 Note)

Not a big fan of "...sounding his/her whistle when the try for goal is released."

BillyMac

BktBallRef wrote
Not a big fan of "...sounding his/her whistle when the try for goal is released."

Agree, but that's what they want us to do.

bainsey

The question was more about the definition of "visual field." Again, I see it as a little bigger than a semicircle, from the left side to the right side of one's field of vision, as the neck is turned. I wanted to know if others see it that way. (No pun intended.)

Snaqwells wrote
Do you always wait until the injured player's team has the ball before blowing it dead?

Not always, but usually. This kid was taken out pretty hard, and I kept an eye on him as the play developed, but a shot was taken pretty quickly, and as soon as his team got the rebound, I whistled.

BillyMac

bainsey wrote
The question was more about the definition of "visual field." Again, I see it as a little bigger than a semicircle, from the left side to the right side of one's field of vision, as the neck is turned.

Just the semicircle. Limited to 180 degrees. When the neck is turned, the semicircle is turned.

bainsey

BillyMac wrote
Just the semicircle. Limited to 180 degrees. When the neck is turned, the semicircle is turned.

Hmmm, so let's say A-1 is running forward while looking over his left shoulder behind him. B-2 has LGP, and is directly in front of A-1. Since A-1's neck and semicircle are turned, would be B-2 be out of the field of vision, or is the semicircle based upon a player facing forward?

Adam

What difference does it make?

bob jenkins

bainsey wrote
Hmmm, so let's say A-1 is running forward while looking over his left shoulder behind him. B-2 has LGP, and is directly in front of A-1. Since A-1's neck and semicircle are turned, would be B-2 be out of the field of vision, or is the semicircle based upon a player facing forward?

In determining the legality of the screen, "field of vision" applies only to a stationary opponent.

"Field of vision" does come into play in determing whether the player being screend commits a foul.

bainsey

bob jenkins wrote
In determining the legality of the screen, "field of vision" applies only to a stationary opponent.

Gotcha, so this isn't even applicable to the formula I was developing. Thanks.