stupid kid; stupid parent

bainsey

7IronRef wrote
I did. You quoted my comment about it not being disrespectful. Your reference to profanity is in regard to a diff situation.

I said, the entire post. You missed the line above regarding under one's breath.

I'll give far more leeway to a high school player than to a sixth grader regarding under-one's-breath comments. A sixth grader will get no leeway at all. I'd also go right to a T, even if it were under his breath.

Ultimately, though, Welpe summed it up nicely. Mostly, these are HTBT situations.

Adam

7IronRef wrote
Of course you would say that, unreasonable people see it as an attack, when it is simply a question of reference.

As players we have all said something under our breath from time to time. As an official we say things under our breath. As spouses, employees, etc. we say things under our breath. Is it best that every comment be penalized? Not in my opinion.

No, he doesn't see it as an attack. He sees it as an irrelevant question that only a fan or parent would ask.

As a spouse, if and when I say things under my breath, I'd better hope it's truly under my breath and my wife doesn't hear it. Like I said before, if I can hear it, it's not under his breath.

Adam

fullor30 wrote
Can I join the club?

Sure, I'm guessing neither of us is first or second.

BktBallRef

7IronRef wrote
Of course you would say that, unreasonable people see it as an attack, when it is simply a question of reference.

As players we have all said something under our breath from time to time. As an official we say things under our breath. As spouses, employees, etc. we say things under our breath. Is it best that every comment be penalized? Not in my opinion.

I see it for what it is, something that I've only heard from ignorant people like fans and coaches who think you had to have played a game to be able to officiate it. It's IRRELEVANT.

And again, everyone but you seems to agree, if I hear it then he did NOT say it under his breath. For all we know he meant to say it loud enough for the closest official to hear it. Happens all the time.

I'm not saying that I would T this up. But it's certainly not appropriate! And if I didn't T it, you can better believe I'll let the kid know it's not acceptable behavior.

fullor30

7IronRef wrote
funny, but if true, sad

Let's keep religion out of this 😀

my kids are allowed to have an opinion, my kids are sometimes right, my kids should not be baited by adults - kids always lose under those circumstances.

You have forgotten what a 6th graders life is like. Go to any grade school and you will hear kids (not mine, I believe) using more colorful language. I understand tone and disagreement play a factor, but the OP does not cross a line with me.

We will leave it at funny........

I have two kids who are doing really well in all areas, thank you , and probably what I'm most proud of is they treat people with respect. How shallow to think if everyone is using foul language, it's ok to lower the bar. Not how I was raised.

Adam

fullor30 wrote
We will leave it at funny........

I have two kids who are doing really well in all areas, thank you , and probably what I'm most proud of is they treat people with respect. How shallow to think if everyone is using foul language, it's ok to lower the bar. Not how I was raised.

Yep, and I happen to have a sixth grader sitting next to me watching TV right now. No way I'd back her up on this. She'd be apologizing to the official.

And it's not the word "crap" for me, either. He could have said "that call was a bunch of garbage" and my response would be the same.

7IronRef

Thanks for offering of opinions as always. I accept that people see it differently and I agree with HTBT, but the OP presented it for discussion, the context is what was stated.

Not that it matters, but I really am an official (level does not matter, but if you need to know, you can PM me).

For those of you that said this is a TF, good luck calling it consistently and stop baiting 6th graders.😃

bainsey

fullor30 wrote
How shallow to think if everyone is using foul language, it's ok to lower the bar. Not how I was raised.

We're the role models here. We're supposed to be setting the bar, not adjusting it to their desires.

BktBallRef wrote
I see it for what it is, something that I've only heard from ignorant people like fans and coaches who think you had to have played a game to be able to officiate it. It's IRRELEVANT.

Yes, and for another reason. NEVER have I met an official that NEVER played the game. Some certainly played at higher levels than others, but none have never played, at least not to my knowledge.

BktBallRef wrote
And again, everyone but you seems to agree, if I hear it then he did NOT say it under his breath.

Actually, my definition differs here a bit. If I believe I'm the ONLY one that heard it, and the words weren't directed at anyone, then I'd call that under one's breath.

Adam

7IronRef wrote
For those of you that said this is a TF, good luck calling it consistently and stop baiting 6th graders.😃

I don't get what you think is so difficult about this.

bainsey wrote
Actually, my definition differs here a bit. If I believe I'm the ONLY one that heard it, and the words weren't directed at anyone, then I'd call that under one's breath.

Fair enough, but there's nothing about "under his breath" in the rules that makes it legal. The point is, if it's loud enough for an official to hear it, it's loud enough to be susceptible to a T.

A coach addressing his players doesn't get a free pass just because he's talking to his players. Had a YMCA coach discussing the foul count with the table at half time; I addressed it with her.

asdf

If you change the setting in this situation from the basketball court to the 6th grade math class or the 6th grader's own home and the teacher or parent respond's with "what did you say ??"......

It's not baiting.

If the kid repeats the comment, he should get punished.

bainsey

Snaqwells wrote
Had a YMCA coach discussing the foul count with the table at half time; I addressed it with her.

With the table? I don't see the point of that. How did she mention it?

BktBallRef

bainsey wrote
Actually, my definition differs here a bit. If I believe I'm the ONLY one that heard it, and the words weren't directed at anyone, then I'd call that under one's breath.

Then we disagree.

BktBallRef

bainsey wrote
With the table? I don't see the point of that. How did she mention it?

At one point, Coach Bobbie Knight asked the table, "What's the foul count? 10-2? 10-2!! REALLY!" loud enough for the officials to hear it.

Adam

bainsey wrote
With the table? I don't see the point of that. How did she mention it?

Talking to them loudly enough for us to hear.

Sort of like talking to his players in a TO huddle, "Johnny, don't worry, that was a great block. It was a horrible call."

bainsey

Snaqwells wrote
Talking to them loudly enough for us to hear.

Gotcha. I had a fun one a few years ago in a youth tournament when the table (scorekeeper) was complaining about the foul count with us at halftime! I addressed it.

SE Minnestoa Re

When my son was in 9th or 10th grade, he was playing intramural basketball. It was my job to pick him up so I stopped in for a while to watch. My son seemed to think he could both play and officiate. All at once a booming voice came from the crowd: "Son, knock it off". Of course it was me, dear old dad. The ride home was interesting to say the least.

The young man learned a valuable lesson that evening. And once he got out of high school, he became an excellent official.

Mark Padgett

bainsey wrote
Gotcha. I had a fun one a few years ago in a youth tournament when the table (scorekeeper) was complaining about the foul count with us at halftime! I addressed it.

I've posted this before, but it seems relevant to this thread, so here it is again. I called a T on a kid for profanity (I think he was 6th grade) in our local kids rec league. In our league, this is an automatic flagrant T. I told his coach and there was no problem, since the coach also heard what the kid said and he knew the rule. I went to report it to the table and the score book guy said there was no way he was recording it in the book and then he just leaned back, folded his arms and shook his head sideways. He said, "That's my son and he wouldn't swear." At first, I thought he was kidding, but he wasn't. I had to tell the coach to replace the guy, which he did.

RookieDude

Snaqwells wrote
Talking to them loudly enough for us to hear.

Sort of like talking to his players in a TO huddle, "Johnny, don't worry, that was a great block. It was a horrible call."

Snaq's...in this case I would either ignore the comment or have a brief conversation with the Coach about his sportsmanship. i.e. "your getting close Coach"

I don't see ME giving the Coach a T, in this case, but it's a possibility.

Are you saying you would whack the Coach?

RookieDude

Mark Padgett wrote
I've posted this before, but it seems relevant to this thread, so here it is again. I called a T on a kid for profanity (I think he was 6th grade) in our local kids rec league. In our league, this is an automatic flagrant T. I told his coach and there was no problem, since the coach also heard what the kid said and he knew the rule. I went to report it to the table and the score book guy said there was no way he was recording it in the book and then he just leaned back, folded his arms and shook his head sideways. He said, "That's my son and he wouldn't swear." At first, I thought he was kidding, but he wasn't. I had to tell the coach to replace the guy, which he did.

What did the kid say?

I know when a Coach asks me this...I say he used profanity (as you did)...but, we're all friends here...what did he say?

Is "Damn" profanity and worthy of ejection in 6th grade? Just curious.

Mark Padgett

RookieDude wrote
What did the kid say?

I know when a Coach asks me this...I say he used profanity (as you did)...but, we're all friends here...what did he say?

Is "Damn" profanity and worthy of ejection in 6th grade? Just curious.

He used the "F word". And yes, in our local kids rec league, "damn" is considered profanity. We actually had a discussion about that a few years ago and that was the decision. It's a "zero tolerance" organization.

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