Fair or Foul

Simply The Best

DG wrote
There is a small portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory.

Small but very meaningful.

If the ball should be batted and land and stop in that Bermuda Triangle it should be ruled fair.

Obliviously 😛

Will not see this happen very often, don't think I have ever.

With experience, Grasshopper 😉, you shall. I have seen this several times.🙂

If a ball should be batted and strike the runner in this area, it should be ruled foul.

:confused: A fair ball is ruled foul because the advancing runner is touched by it?

Rita C

clevbrown wrote
I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?

You are correct. It's just that a batted ball that hits a batter who is still in the box, is considered to be foul, even if it hits a foot in the fair portion of the box. This is by convention.

Your friend has confused things a bit.

Rita

ozzy6900

clevbrown wrote
I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?

Yes, there is a small portion of the batter's box in fair territory. Now, if you are calling the pitch (PU) or watching the offer of a swing (BU), neither of you are going to see the ball hit this tiny area. Now, if the coach comes out saying that the ball may have hit the fair area, you simply say, "Coach, in my opinion, the ball hit in the box, foul.". Remember, yours is the opinion that counts. Also, tell your "learned, experienced" umpire friend that he should spend more time watching the pitch!

bob jenkins

Simply The Best wrote
A fair ball is ruled foul because the advancing runner is touched by it?

A batted ball which hits the batter in the box is foul, even if it hits the batter in/over the "fair" portion of the batter's box.

MD Longhorn

clevbrown wrote
Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false.

You are correct, sir.

MD Longhorn

DG wrote
If a ball should be batted and strike the runner in this area, it should be ruled foul.

Batter, not runner.

MD Longhorn

ozzy6900 wrote
Yes, there is a small portion of the batter's box in fair territory. Now, if you are calling the pitch (PU) or watching the offer of a swing (BU), neither of you are going to see the ball hit this tiny area. Now, if the coach comes out saying that the ball may have hit the fair area, you simply say, "Coach, in my opinion, the ball hit in the box, foul.". Remember, yours is the opinion that counts. Also, tell your "learned, experienced" umpire friend that he should spend more time watching the pitch!

You are always dead on... but not this time. I can't even follow what you're saying here. It is readily easy to see where a ball that has landed untouched. If this ball is still moving, then it doesn't matter at all whether the ball first hit in the Bermuda Triangle at all. He's obviously referring to a ball that has stopped there.

MD Longhorn

bob jenkins wrote
A batted ball which hits the batter in the box is foul, even if it hits the batter in/over the "fair" portion of the batter's box.

I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.

mbyron

mbcrowder wrote
Batter, not runner.

Both, actually. 🙂

bob jenkins

mbcrowder wrote
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.

If that was the joke, I missed it and I apologize.

But, the batter becomes a runner after hitting a (fair?) ball, so the statement was correct.

As long as we all know the rule / interp, I'll ignore the semantics (this time)

Rich Ives

Rita C wrote
You are correct. It's just that a batted ball that hits a batter who is still in the box, is considered to be foul, even if it hits a foot in the fair portion of the box. This is by convention.
Your friend has confused things a bit.

Rita

OBR was updated to include this in the rule.

Rita C

Rich Ives wrote
OBR was updated to include this in the rule.

Good to hear. There are quite a few of these small "changes" in the OBR but I haven't got a paper copy of the new.

Rita

Simply The Best

Originally Posted by mbcrowder
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.

bob jenkins wrote
If that was the joke, I missed it and I apologize.

No worries, Bob, just give yourself a 24 hour timeout. 😀

bob jenkins

Simply The Best wrote
Originally Posted by mbcrowder
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.
No worries, Bob, just give yourself a 24 hour timeout. 😃

Mistakes are tolerated. Multiple, intentional, negative comments (especially by or between parties with a "history"), not so much.

DG

mbcrowder wrote
Batter, not runner.

Ticky tack, batter is a batter-runner after batting the ball.

Welpe

TampaBayTommy wrote
Depends on where they draw the batter's box. I see as many all in foul territory as I see the ones with a part in fair.

What are you gonna do? Call the drawn box or make one up in your head when it is incorrectly lined? You're gonna call the one drawn. There is your real timey answer.

The incorrectly drawn box will either be redrawn correctly or conveniently disappear before the game even starts.

Welpe

Ah the troll returned. Got it now.

MrUmpire

TampaBayTommy wrote
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers ." --was proclaimed by Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

And, in 1943 with what was considered a computer, he was right. As has been pointed out many times, he was not predicting beyond that.

MrUmpire

TampaBayTommy wrote
I'll take your word on that. I wasn't an adult in 1943 and I always give heed to my elders.

Two and two is four.

There, we've now exchanged platitudinous truisms. Are we bonding yet?

Oh, it's you. Sorry I didn't recognize you at first. Here....join your previous incarnations on the ignore list. Say "hi" to STB for me.

greymule

"He's obviously referring to a ball that has stopped there." —mbcrowder

That's what I figured, too, but lands and settles are not synonymous, and since half the world seems to think that a ball that first hits on foul territory is immediately, automatically, and forever foul, I'm glad you pointed that out.

I've seen a ball settle in that little triangle several times in baseball. In fast-pitch softball, it's actually fairly common.