Whistle for a sub?

CLH

tomegun wrote
For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

Another reason I don't care for the whistle is communication. I'm going to vocalize a lot of things during a game that I don't hear from other officials. For instance, I have seen a ball bouncing away before inbounding and an official blows a whistle to "tell" a player to get the ball for him. Really? Why can't we talk? I have of the horn, "Blue sub" preference, but I'm listening.

I'd love to work these game you guys get where the table does everything exactly as instructed and never misses a beat! Sounds just grand! 😉

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

tomegun

CLH wrote
I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

My second point has to do with using the whistle in a robotic manner instead of communicating...wait for it...with our mouths. 🙂

Our table crews are not perfect, but we aren't either. However, they do go through training and attend meetings like we do. They are taught to hit the horn so it isn't a big deal for them to do it consistently. I failed to mention, there are instances where a whistle is necessary like after the last free throw when a team may try to get the ball in quick.

chartrusepengui

tomegun wrote
For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

APG

tomegun wrote
Do you use your whistle when calling in a sub or not and why? I have my opinion and would like to here others. While I know this is a small detail, I think some uniformity would be nice in our association. If it matters, we have table crew who are part of our association so they go through training.

I used to not use my whistle for subs, but recently I've been told by those in my association that I should do it, so I do.

tomegun wrote
While I'm at it, what do you think about officials reporting with two hands in a high school game? This may be a total contradiction to my first question, but I'm more concerned with officials getting calls right - which is a problem.

Personally, I don't care. I think if I was working the table, I'd prefer for the officials to use two hands (let's ask our resident expert in all matters relating to the table 😉). If I had the choice I'd go to two handed reporting. As it is, we aren't allowed to do so in my association. so I only use it for double numbers.

JBleach85

I think it is a great thing to do and I would recommend it because sometimes the table doesn't even sound the horn because they forgot or they don't see the subs at the table. It is just a precaution to help you notify your partner and it also allows you to notify the table just incase they can't see the subs.

Peace
JB

chseagle

tomegun wrote
Do you use your whistle when calling in a sub or not and why? I have my opinion and would like to here others. While I know this is a small detail, I think some uniformity would be nice in our association. If it matters, we have table crew who are part of our association so they go through training.

While I'm at it, what do you think about officials reporting with two hands in a high school game? This may be a total contradiction to my first question, but I'm more concerned with officials getting calls right - which is a problem.

Tomegun,

In your association, is that all the table crews or just a few?

Concerning the whistle for subs, as has been mentioned in other posts, it opens up communication more between partners. As I've stated before in other posts, I would rather the floor officials signal for the subs instead of me having to hit the horn.

Concerning free throws & subs, I have my hand over the horn to buzz it in case the free throw is made. As soon as I see the ball in the net on the way down, I buzz as a courtesy, knowing that the floor officials have so much to watch at the time.

tomegun

chartrusepengui wrote
The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

I take your response as the most "matter of factly" so far. That being the case, why isn't it in the manual then? You know what I do? The horn sounds and in a voice so I can be heard I say...wait for it..."Subs!" If I'm in a situation where I cannot be heard I may use my whistle. This response causes me to ask the question: since we are always talking about making eye contact with our partners, where is the eye contact in this situation? My original question and the tables in Vegas blowing the horn are not absolutes and I don't expect eye contact with a partner to be either, but where is the eye contact we talk about in meetings, on this site and in pre-games?

If I'm coming off as argumentative right now I don't mean to. I have no problem talking things out and right now I'm seeing the reason people do this as a direct contradiction with what they always preach.

Nevadaref

As a member of the Board for the association up North, I'll contribute my feelings.

1. NEVER use two-hand reporting in a HS game. The NFHS manual specifies "with a one-handed signal." So follow the HS mechanics or don't work that level of ball. It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

2. I ALWAYS sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. It's on pages 41 (F2) and 78 (G2), for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

Note:
The table crew in my area is not part of the officials association and so does not have meetings or instruction other than from us just prior to the games. We get whomever the school provides. That is a difference between here and Vegas.

Kingsman1288

Nevadaref wrote
It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

I disagree. I think people read too much into it when officials report with two hands. Yes, reporting with two hands is not correct as far as the NFHS manual is concerned and should be commented on as such. But to go as far as saying reporting that way is big timing the game? That's a bit much IMO.

Judtech

TOM - Since you have a whislte in your mouth when you blow it, couldn't it be argued that by blowing the whistle IS communicating with your mouth?? (J/K I will ask a player to get a ball rather than blow the whistle)
I always blow the whistle, and usually verbalize SUB, when I am bringing subs into a game. But again, I am always in the more communication camp on situations like these
As for using one or two hands reporting in HS, I TRY to use one hand but more often then not revert back to two. Part of the reason, I think, is I was asked early on "Would you rather make a $65 mistake (reporting w/ 2 hand in NFHS) or a $400 mistake (reporting with one hand in NCAA -W).?" I do agree that it CAN come off as big time, but I think that has more to do with the personality of the official than the actual mechanic.

BillyMac

After the horn sounds to get the substitutes in, if I wave in the substitutes and they don't come in, I'll yell, "Subs". If that doesn't work, I'll sound my whistle. That's the way most of us do it here in our little corner of the "Constitution State".

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
I always sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

No whistle in the IAABO Manual.

Note to veteran NFHS mechanics users: Has the whistle for substitutes always been part of the NFHS Manual? Many years ago we used to use the NFHS mechanics, and I don't remember sounding the whistle to bring in substitutes.

Mark Padgett

I never whistle for a sub. However, I do sometimes whistle at a hot mom. 🙂

BktBallRef

RichMSN wrote
I'll mention it, then. In my meeting with the table, I instruct the timer to only give a horn for subs when we don't recognize them. It may happen once or twice a game where we're too slow for the timer or the timer's too quick for us. Frankly, my timing is better than theirs 99% of the time.

Exactly. Don't blame the damn horn unless he's sitting on the X and I'm in la-la land.

Raymond

tomegun wrote
For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? ...

Come on Tom, we all know at the HS level that table crew compentency varies GREATLY.

It's pretty simple for me:

Table hits horns, I use raised hand but no whistle from me
Table doesn't hit horn and I have eye contact with my partner I use voice and raised hand
Table doesn't hit horn and I DON'T have eye contact with my partner then I use whistle and raised hand

I really don't see what's the big deal though.

Jurassic Referee

BadNewsRef wrote
I really don't see what's the big deal though.

It ain't a big deal. You do what your local association tells you to do. That includes one hand vs. two hand reporting also. And if you're not sure, you ask.

BillyMac

Jurassic Referee wrote
You do what your local association tells you to do. That includes one hand vs. two hand reporting also.

In India, associations allow ten hand reporting. It's true.

truerookie

I whistle to bring in subs and I use one hand reporting when doing HS games, on the occasion when, I have the opportunity to work NCAA-W games. I use two hand reporting. I have always been taught to be aware of what level you are working and use the proper mechanics.,

grunewar

As has been discussed, I try and do what I'm told.

As a mostly sub-V, AAU and Rec Official I use the whistle to bring in subs as the table crews are oft times not stellar performers/volunteers. Now, as I get better table crews at the JV/V games, often the horn will actually sound, in which case I have been instructed NOT to use the whistle as it is redundant.

I don't do College games, therefore I never use two-hands to report. My thoughts on that - I'm kinda in Nevada's camp here. Hey, if you do both levels and you can keep both sets of rules straight, you can keep your hand signals/mechanics straight too and you KNOW you should be using one-hand.....so, why use two? Unless you're trying to show someone something.....and what could that be?

JMO

chseagle

Mark Padgett wrote
I never whistle for a sub. However, I do sometimes whistle at a hot mom. 🙂

So when you whistle at that hot mom, you're allowing her to enter the game to go after any loose balls? 🙂