Batted ball deflected out of play

Dakota

USSSA Rules.

Fly ball hit to right field. Field is unfenced. The ball deflects off F9's glove (in fair territory) and goes into dead ball territory.

BR was not yet at 1B when the ball was deflected, but was between 1B and 2B when the ball went into DBT.

What is the base award?

I know what it is with ASA and NFHS, but U-trip rules do not specifically address a deflected ball. They talk about a ball thrown or carried into DBT (intentionally and unintentionally), and about a fielder losing possession on a tag play, but that's all I can find.

charliej47

RULE 9. BASE RUNNING
Sec. 6. A batter-runner is awarded first base if:
A. He is a runner because of c, d or e of section 5
B. A fair ball, other than an infield fly, becomes dead and provided a preceding runner or retired runner does not interfere in such a way as to
prevent an obvious double play.
NOTE: Unless awarded first base as above, a batter-runner is entitled to first base only if the batter-runner reaches it before being tagged out, thrown out or called out for hitting an infield fly.

Rich Ives

charliej47 wrote
RULE 9. BASE RUNNING
Sec. 6. A batter-runner is awarded first base if:
A. He is a runner because of c, d or e of section 5
B. A fair ball, other than an infield fly, becomes dead and provided a preceding runner or retired runner does not interfere in such a way as to
prevent an obvious double play.
NOTE: Unless awarded first base as above, a batter-runner is entitled to first base only if the batter-runner reaches it before being tagged out, thrown out or called out for hitting an infield fly.

You gotta be kidding!

CecilOne

Dakota wrote
USSSA Rules.

Fly ball hit to right field. Field is unfenced. The ball deflects off F9's glove (in fair territory) and goes into dead ball territory.

BR was not yet at 1B when the ball was deflected, but was between 1B and 2B when the ball went into DBT.

What is the base award?

I know what it is with ASA and NFHS, but U-trip rules do not specifically address a deflected ball. They talk about a ball thrown or carried into DBT (intentionally and unintentionally), and about a fielder losing possession on a tag play, but that's all I can find.

I would treat it as "a ball thrown or carried into DBT" unintentionally

charliej47

When you read the rulebook you come up with some strange things.

Dakota

charliej47 wrote
RULE 9. BASE RUNNING
Sec. 6. A batter-runner is awarded first base if:
A. He is a runner because of c, d or e of section 5
B. A fair ball, other than an infield fly, becomes dead and provided a preceding runner or retired runner does not interfere in such a way as to
prevent an obvious double play.
NOTE: Unless awarded first base as above, a batter-runner is entitled to first base only if the batter-runner reaches it before being tagged out, thrown out or called out for hitting an infield fly.

What rule book are you quoting? (Year, etc.?)

This wording is not quite what the 2010 rule book says in that same rule (Rule 8-5). I should have also said fastpitch, since U-trip has two separate rule books for fast and slow pitch, but I wouldn't have thought the ruling would be different.

Nonetheless, the current rule book does have the same wording as "B" that you quoted (8-5-D) and the same note, but this cannot be meant to apply to ALL situations where a batted ball becomes dead, since that would directly contradict the majority of Rule 8-14. Awarded Bases, including some very obvious awards (home run, fair ball bouncing over the fence (GRD), etc., etc.).

I chalk this up to goofy rule book wording, since they must be talking about "at least" 1B, not at most.

Dakota

CecilOne wrote
I would treat it as "a ball thrown or carried into DBT" unintentionally

That's the closest I could come, but since the fielder did not catch the ball, she didn't carry it or throw it; she did not have possession, so she did not lose possession, etc.

ASA and NFHS put deflected out of play under the "Ground Rule Double" rule (ASA 8-5-I), IOW, 2 bases from TOP, which is what I ruled on the play, placing the BR on 2B. Offense was arguing for 3B. I'm not sure how they get there; I suppose they were arguing 1+1 from the time the ball went dead. I can find NO support for that.

Rule 8-15-A would indicate the award should be from the TOP, which if you use the unintentionally thrown or carried, that would be returning the runner to 1B. That definitely does not seem right.

greymule

I have never seen a U-Trip rule book, even though I played U-Trip for decades.

However, in every code I know, a fly ball that hits an outfielder's glove fair and then travels over the fence fair is a home run, and a fly ball that hits an outfielder's glove fair and then goes out of play foul is an award of 2B.

There are some rare circumstances that might call for a different ruling, but those rules would cover virtually all plays you might actually see.