what is a grasp?

derwil

If you see anyone getting CLOSE to the rim during warm ups....ease over to them and tell the to stay away from it. Or better, ask the coach if he is comfortable starting the game with a T for grasping the rim as little Johnny has been getting really close to it. Either one usually stops it immediately.

rsl

Mark Padgett wrote
... (and I'm one of those guys who thinks this rule applies to the net as well) ...

The rule says "basket", and basket is defined earlier in the rules as basket ring together with net, so I think the rule does apply to net.

And I have daughters too- Now you have me worried just thinking about it!

constable

Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?

bob jenkins

constable wrote
Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?

Nope.

Went to work an "alumni game" yesterday. One of the players dunked and hung at one end of the gym. Broke the basket support (the whole support / backboard started swinging wildly.

The alums had to play half-court.

constable

so then ban hanging on the rim in the warm up like we do in the game.

With breakaway rims, you really need to throw it down hard and hang on the rim for a while before you do any damage to it.

Just going up and dunking the ball will not break the rim.

eyezen

constable wrote
Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?

I for one don't. Yes the rule may have come from a bygone era of rigid rims, but the antics and gamesmanship that it prevents is more than satisfactory for keeping the rule.

BktBallRef

rsl wrote
This came up at a pickup game today. 10-3-3 prohibits grasping the basket or dunking in warm-ups. What about just touching the rim or slapping the backboard?

What are the limits?

Just for the record, I'm the one with the gym key and I was trying to keep my buddies from bending the rim. They were definitely grasping.

10-3-3
ART. 3 . . . Grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction,
dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game
or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item
applies to all team members.

What does it matter what the rules are? 😕

Tell the guys if they want to play, don't TOUCH the rim. STAY OFF.

Your responsibility has nothing to do with the rules.

BktBallRef

constable wrote
so then ban hanging on the rim in the warm up like we do in the game.

With breakaway rims, you really need to throw it down hard and hang on the rim for a while before you do any damage to it.

Just going up and dunking the ball will not break the rim.

Schools are laying off teachers because of budget cuts and you want to allow dunking in pre-game, where there's potential to do hundreds if not thousands of dollars in damage. It's unecessary and expensive when one is broken.

You couldn't be more wrong.

rsl

BktBallRef wrote
What does it matter what the rules are? 😕

Tell the guys if they want to play, don't TOUCH the rim. STAY OFF.

Your responsibility has nothing to do with the rules.

Absolutely. But after I stopped them, we talked rules for the rest of the warm-up and it got me thinking.

The no dunk in warm-up is absolutely a good rule. Especially for sub-varsity or rec games in auxiliary gyms where they don't always have new rims and the players can't jump as high as they think they can.

BillyMac

bob jenkins wrote
Nope. Went to work an "alumni game" yesterday. One of the players dunked and hung at one end of the gym. Broke the basket support.

Let's not forget the injury factor, players who would never, or could never, try to dunk in a game, trying to dunk during warmups. An injury waiting to happen.

JRutledge

constable wrote
so then ban hanging on the rim in the warm up like we do in the game.

With breakaway rims, you really need to throw it down hard and hang on the rim for a while before you do any damage to it.

Just going up and dunking the ball will not break the rim.

Then you have players trying to do things they cannot do. And for the record about 3 years ago a kid died from my state (playing in another state during the summer) trying to dunk and he fell on his head and died. I do not think this should be legal if for no other reason players that would never be able to dunk in a real game, try to touch, hang, and dunk on the ring when they cannot get up there in the first place.

Peace

constable

How is it different from dunking in a game? If there is such a significant risk to players when dunking, then why allow it during the game?

Is Federation the only rule set which prohibits dunking during the warm up? You can do it in FIBA. What are the NCAA rules?

JRutledge

constable wrote
How is it different from dunking in a game? If there is such a significant risk to players when dunking, then why allow it during the game?

Is Federation the only rule set which prohibits dunking during the warm up? You can do it in FIBA. What are the NCAA rules?

A player dunking in a game likely can do so and if they cannot, they might get pulled by the coach because it cost them points. You do not see players trying to dunk that cannot in games. In warm-ups kids might try several times and cause the rim to break more than once.

BTW, the rules at the NCAA level are the same. I do not give a rat's behind about FIBA rules because they might use a different financial structure to fix a rim and backboard.

Peace

eyezen

constable wrote
How is it different from dunking in a game? If there is such a significant risk to players when dunking, then why allow it during the game?

Is Federation the only rule set which prohibits dunking during the warm up? You can do it in FIBA. What are the NCAA rules?

Can't do it in NCAA either...seems as though you are more worried about wanting to see a dunk contest rather than officiating a basketball game. For that I suggest the NBA all-star weekend or an And-1 taping.

constable

eyezen wrote
Can't do it in NCAA either...seems as though you are more worried about wanting to see a dunk contest rather than officiating a basketball game. For that I suggest the NBA all-star weekend or an And-1 taping.

Am I not entitled to my opinion? I don't like certain rules. It doesn't mean I don't enforce them.

I just believe personally that some rules aren't applicable or appropriate for games being played in today's era.

It's much the same as certain laws which I'm sworn to enforce at work. They might have been applicable in 1980 but are still on the books today.

Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't enforce it.

Lotto

eyezen wrote
Can't do it in NCAA either...

Actually, it's only illegal in NCAAM to dunk before the game. NCAAW only prohibits dunking a dead ball during the game.

eyezen

constable wrote
Am I not entitled to my opinion? I don't like certain rules. It doesn't mean I don't enforce them.

I just believe personally that some rules aren't applicable or appropriate for games being played in today's era.

It's much the same as certain laws which I'm sworn to enforce at work. They might have been applicable in 1980 but are still on the books today.

Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't enforce it.

Sigh, of course you are and so am I, so let's not play that silly game. But I'll reiterate my opinion that your more concerned about seeing a show than a basketball game. What does pregame dunking bring to the table? Nothing, other than shenanigans and gamesmanship. It has nothing to do with the game, so why allow it? How can it not be appropriate if it prevents those things?

And don't forget that the FED bases their rules on whats applicable to all high schools across the US. This isn't the NBA where they can tightly regulate the basket apparatuses in 29 arenas.

JRutledge

constable wrote
Am I not entitled to my opinion? I don't like certain rules. It doesn't mean I don't enforce them.

I just believe personally that some rules aren't applicable or appropriate for games being played in today's era.

It's much the same as certain laws which I'm sworn to enforce at work. They might have been applicable in 1980 but are still on the books today.

Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't enforce it.

I have not been officiating since 1980, but when I was working a summer game several years ago there were kids intent on slamming the ball. One guy hung on the rim and broke the basket. That court could not be used anymore, and that was with maintenance people around and working on fixing the problem. Well that did not work because they did not have the tools or the ability to fix it in a timely manner. Now if this was a real game, the game would have been canceled or postponed. And this was a rather typical high school and I can only image the many schools do not have any maintenance people on site or the resources to fix a broken basket on the spot.

Peace

Mark Padgett

constable wrote
Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?

Only in third grade games. That's where it should be encouraged.

BktBallRef

constable wrote
How is it different from dunking in a game? If there is such a significant risk to players when dunking, then why allow it during the game?

As Billy Mac said, you're going to have kids trying to dunk that can't and with that comes an increaded injury risk. Game versus warmups, here's one example: In warmups you would have kids, who can't dunk, running from half court, jumping, and trying to dunk. Are you going to have that during a game? No.

And I don't know where you got that you have to really hang on the rim to break it. That just isn't true.

Is Federation the only rule set which prohibits dunking during the warm up? You can do it in FIBA. What are the NCAA rules?

It doesn't matter. NCAA players are not HS kids. There's a higher skill level at work. There are plenty of rule differences between NCAA and NFHS and most of them exist because of the difference in skill level.

Am I not entitled to my opinion?

Did you not ask us what we thought?

"Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?"