rule 4.03 & 4.03(a)

Kleff

Hey,
Little help on a rules clarification.
Rule 4.03 states all players accept the catcher must be in fair territory at the start of the play!
Rule 4.03(a) states if the catcher leaves the catchers box prior to the ball leaving the pitchers hand the penalty is a balk.
What is the penalty for rule 4.03? Isthe penalty the same as rule 4.03(a)

Thanks
Kleff

nopachunts

Kleff wrote
Hey,
Little help on a rules clarification.
Rule 4.03 states all players accept the catcher must be in fair territory at the start of the play!
Rule 4.03(a) states if the catcher leaves the catchers box prior to the ball leaving the pitchers hand the penalty is a balk.
What is the penalty for rule 4.03? Isthe penalty the same as rule 4.03(a)

Thanks
Kleff

Rule 4.03 states: "When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory." As an umpire you don't put the ball into play until all players except the catcher are on fair territory. There is no penalty, you just don't put the ball into play. If the players refuse, then there are penalties for delaying the game.

mbyron

Umpires ignore this rule until somebody complains. Then enforce it equally for both teams. No penalty for violations, but if a player declines to comply he could risk ejection (though I can't imagine that happening in one of my games -- I'd be more likely to eject the complainer).

RPatrino

About the only other player that 'might' be in foul territory would be F3 holding a runner, or in youth league, F5 holding a runner on 3rd. In the real world, I have never had anyone ever say anything about an F3/F5 having a foot in foul ground prior to the pitch.

As mentioned, if someone complains, then both teams have to comply. I would simply say to the offending player, 'get in fair ground'. But, I've never had an occassion to enforce it.

SanDiegoSteve

RPatrino wrote
In the real world, I have never had anyone ever say anything about an F3/F5 having a foot in foul ground prior to the pitch.

I don't allow it. F3 can hold the runner on base in the correct manner, which is both feet in fair territory, and the line is in fair territory, so touching the line is fine. But his foot completely outside the line is not, and I make them do it right. Allowing F3 to stand outside the foul line gives him an unfair advantage over the baserunner, IMO.

bob jenkins

SanDiegoSteve wrote
I don't allow it. F3 can hold the runner on base in the correct manner, which is both feet in fair territory, and the line is in fair territory, so touching the line is fine. But his foot completely outside the line is not, and I make them do it right. Allowing F3 to stand outside the foul line gives him an unfair advantage over the baserunner, IMO.

1) In FED, having one foot on the line and one in foul is allowed.

2) In OBR, it's allowed until someone complains (per PBUC interp).

johnnyg08

Are you sure Bob? I'm pretty sure FED has the same interp as PBUC.

Kevin Finnerty

Wee Willie Keeler and John McGraw and other little pests like them used to float little backspin bunts that would land fair and then turn left and shoot foul, making it impossible to throw them out. So the third baseman would often play in shallow foul territory, because the ball could merely land fair and was playable. That was the genesis of the rule that all other players be stationed in fair territory (and also the rule requiring a batted ball to remain fair or reach a base to be fair).

UmpJM

johnnyg08 wrote
Are you sure Bob? I'm pretty sure FED has the same interp as PBUC.

johnny,

Yes, he's sure.

You may be "pretty sure", but you're wrong.

Yes, I'm sure.

Tim C

"Yes, I'm sure."

As am I.

johnnyg08

Yep, you guys are right, p. 75 in the rules by topic fed book.

David Emerling

Kleff wrote
Hey,
Little help on a rules clarification.
Rule 4.03 states all players accept the catcher must be in fair territory at the start of the play!
Rule 4.03(a) states if the catcher leaves the catchers box prior to the ball leaving the pitchers hand the penalty is a balk.
What is the penalty for rule 4.03? Isthe penalty the same as rule 4.03(a)

Thanks
Kleff

You have received good answers.

A more interesting aspect of your question is: What do you do when the batter leads off with a double and you notice that there was no right-fielder? The defense only had 8 players out there.

Yeah, yeah - I know, "That would never happen in one of my games because I always check to make sure that there are 9 fielders, properly positioned, before I put the ball in play."

Humor me.

RPatrino

Steve, I don't do many OBR games anymore. Even so, this is nit I don't care to pick. Just me, I suppose.

Tim C

"A more interesting aspect of your question is: What do you do when the batter leads off with a double and you notice that there was no right-fielder?

"The defense only had 8 players out there."

Easy, one of baseball's "do overs".

bob jenkins

David Emerling wrote
You have received good answers.

A more interesting aspect of your question is: What do you do when the batter leads off with a double and you notice that there was no right-fielder? The defense only had 8 players out there.

Yeah, yeah - I know, "That would never happen in one of my games because I always check to make sure that there are 9 fielders, properly positioned, before I put the ball in play."

Humor me.

Declare that time was out because you were about to change out the baseball.

Kevin Finnerty

He humored you. And it was pretty good.

johnnyg08

Kevin Finnerty wrote
Wee Willie Keeler and John McGraw and other little pests like them used to float little backspin bunts that would land fair and then turn left and shoot foul, making it impossible to throw them out. So the third baseman would often play in shallow foul territory, because the ball could merely land fair and was playable. That was the genesis of the rule that all other players be stationed in fair territory (and also the rule requiring a batted ball to remain fair or reach a base to be fair).

interesting