Thrower in delay......

Jeremy Hohn

3 person crew in a 5a girls game in Texas......

We are about halfway through the third period and one team is starting to kill the other. After a made basket, team A refuses to throw the ball in after it has settled under the basket. My partner waits a few seconds, and begins his 5 second count. After reaching the 5 second count, the coach for team A goes ballistic saying that he has a "designated free thrower" and we need to wait for her to inbound the ball.

I told him that my co-official didn't know that, and all that we saw was 4 of his girls refusing to pick up the ball and inbound it, and we gave you plenty of time to get the ball and inbound it.
He says that he can take all the time he needed since the count isn't supposed to start until the ball is at the disposal of his thrower-in which in his mind wasn't until his player picked up the ball.
Okay, was my co-official correct in calling 5 seconds? or should we have gone with a delay of game warning first? Just wanted some feedback....

finnref

I would consider the ball lying under the basket at the disposal of one of the players. After a couple of seconds to give them a chance to pick up the ball I would start the five second count. the gball does not have to be in the players hands in order to staat the count. Violation good call.

BktBallRef

The ball is at the thrower's disposal when it's lying on the floor and available to her. There was nothing wrong with what your partner did.

rpirtle

I would have to agree with the others. Hard to believe the coach expected to be able to take "all the time he needed" to pick-up the ball. I usually give the player a "moment" to collect the ball and get out of bounds before I begin my count (if I feel they are making an honest effort). But if the player is delaying to give his/her teammates additional time to set up or to "burn time", I am going to begin my count whether they have the ball or not. In your case, sounds like the coach just didn't have a clue.

Jeremy, I see you work college ball in TX. Do you work on Tony's staff? I work for Tony out of Dallas/Ft Worth. Hope to see you on the court sometime.

RecRef

Originally posted by Jeremy Hohn
3 person crew in a 5a girls game in Texas......

3-person crew in a 5a girl’s game in Texas

You use 3 person crews in 9 and under rec leagues in Texas?!?!?! 😉

Seriously, if you have given the “team” a short amount of time to get to the ball than you should/must start the count. First, there is no provision in NFHS rules for a coach-designated thrower. More than that, it could well be a designed delay to give team A an advantage in trying to break B’s press. Coach A could drill his players in that if they see a full court press developing on a inbounds play that they are not to pickup the ball until help arrives/comes back from the front court.

If you do not start the start the count you negate B’s good defensive effort.

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“Gee coach, I never knew that there is a rule for a coach-designated in bounder. How about showing it to me after the game?”

Jeremy Hohn

Jeremy, I see you work college ball in TX. Do you work on Tony's staff? I work for Tony out of Dallas/Ft Worth. Hope to see you on the court sometime.

Yep I usually take care of the Lone Star and Juco stuff over here in west Tx. I was unable to make Tony's camp this year, so my schedule reflects it, but next year I will be back with a vengeance!

I felt what we did is correct, and would do the same thing again. Funny thing is Midland High was getting DROVE my a team from El Paso, and I was with a couple of relative 5A newbies and I think the coach was trying to pull a fast one...😉

mick

This would actually make a pretty good case or definition for Fed to consider.

...Opponents of the scoring team shall, without delay, secure the ball....

Nevadaref

Some definitions to consider for this play:
4-41-3 The throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to it.
4-4-7d A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after a goal.

Now you may quibble about what "available to a player" means, but it obviously does not mean the ball has to be in the player's hands. These references should make it clear that this coach is just crazy.

Certainly, if the ball hasn't been knocked away from the area under the basket after a goal has been scored, the official should start a throw-in count within a couple of seconds. It is my feeling that if a team wishes to have only one particular player execute the throw-in, rather than whoever happens to be closest to the ball when the goal is scored, they can use part of their five seconds to set this up.