Correctable error was my fault

M&M Guy

bob jenkins wrote
My guess is that the team thought it was a T (or treated the same as a T) since no one was on the lane. Whoever "normally" shoots the Ts for that team went to the line.

Hmm, good point.

But, again, where were his partners?

JugglingReferee

M&M Guy wrote
Hmm, good point.

But, again, where were his partners?

Agreed! I wanna know too.

Also, I was taught (Fed, not NCAA) to grab the number of the shooter for your partner. Because I officiate football, I have developed a certain skill for remembering numbers, I have now worked into my game to grab both the foulee and fouler.

In most cases, I even have time to listen what my P reports while watching the players. (Again, something from fb: we're taught that penalty application is a *crew* responsibility; so no matter what position I work, I confirm the penalty app in my head.) It's not hard to do, and it saves us an average of 3-4 times per season (P reported a wrong number or forgot).

fullor30

JugglingReferee wrote
Agreed! I wanna know too.

Also, I was taught (Fed, not NCAA) to grab the number of the shooter for your partner. Because I officiate football, I have developed a certain skill for remembering numbers, I have now worked into my game to grab both the foulee and fouler.

In most cases, I even have time to listen what my P reports while watching the players. (Again, something from fb: we're taught that penalty application is a *crew* responsibility; so no matter what position I work, I confirm the penalty app in my head.) It's not hard to do, and it saves us an average of 3-4 times per season (P reported a wrong number or forgot).

It's a weakness of mine, more of reporting wrong number for foul. I find I'm easily distracted if something out of the ordinary happens which is the case in your sitch. We have Comcast game of the week here for high school and a recent game I watched a downstate official shoo the correct shooter off the line and put the wrong one up there. The proper shooter protested and was told to vamoose, other partners said nothing.

Obviously you're a good official to have risen to the college ranks, that's why you feel upset over the error. File it away, I'll bet you never let it happen again.

JugglingReferee

fullor30 wrote
It's a weakness of mine, more of reporting wrong number for foul. I find I'm easily distracted if something out of the ordinary happens which is the case in your sitch. We have Comcast game of the week here for high school and a recent game I watched a downstate official shoo the correct shooter off the line and put the wrong one up there. The proper shooter protested and was told to vamoose, other partners said nothing.

Obviously you're a good official to have risen to the college ranks, that's why you feel upset over the error. File it away, I'll bet you never let it happen again.

You must have meant to quote Scrapper1 and not me! 😛

IREFU2

M&M Guy wrote
Hmm, good point.

But, again, where were his partners?

I would like to know that as well. Thats why when I am the of official, I do my best to help my partner(s) with putting the right shooter on the line. I also try to call out my shooter after the foul....use that situation as a learning tool.

Rita C

Scrapper1 wrote
D3 game last night. A1 drives to the basket and is fouled hard by B1. B1 attempts to play the ball, but after the initial contact, he follows through and pulls A1 to the floor. Intentional foul. I stayed in the area to make sure nothing else flares up, A1's teammates help him up from the floor, and I go to the table to report the foul.

Both free throws are successful and I indicate to my partner that the throw-in is on the endline. He walks to me and says "Was he the right shooter?"

🙁

Fact is, I never verbalized the shooter's number at the spot of the foul, and when he asked me, I had no idea who the shooter was. My third partner confirmed that it was the wrong shooter.

We corrected it properly, the correct shooter also made both free throws, so the error made no impact on the game. But I felt, and feel, like crap. First time I neglect to say who my shooter is, and I freakin' screw the pooch.

As playoffs approach, DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!!! Verbalize your shooter. What's the saying? If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a terrible warning.

Well, today, I'm the terrible warning. (And I'm pissed off about it! 😠 )

What is some of the verbiage you all use to say the number of the shooter? I have a problem with loosing the number of the fouler if I say the number of the shooter.

Rita

M&M Guy

Rita C wrote
What is some of the verbiage you all use to say the number of the shooter? I have a problem with loosing the number of the fouler if I say the number of the shooter.

Rita

That should be the responsibility of your partner(s). If it was me, I would verbalize, "I've got your shooter, Rita", and even point at the player. If there was any confusion as to who the shooter might be on a foul I called, I would point at the player and tell my partner, "Here's my shooter". I would then hope my partner(s) would keep track of that player.

I usually have the same problem of keeping track of more than one number at a time when reporting a foul. That's why I try not to verbalize the shooter's number, how many fouls they have, how many TO's the team has left...er...never mind.

KJUmp

M&M Guy wrote
That should be the responsibility of your partner(s). If it was me, I would verbalize, "I've got your shooter, Rita", and even point at the player. If there was any confusion as to who the shooter might be on a foul I called, I would point at the player and tell my partner, "Here's my shooter". I would then hope my partner(s) would keep track of that player.

I usually have the same problem of keeping track of more than one number at a time when reporting a foul. That's why I try not to verbalize the shooter's number, how many fouls they have, how many TO's the team has left...er...never mind.

Rita...great question to ask (as I have the same problem)..M&M..great reply..thanks for explaining the mechanic.

BillyMac

Rita C wrote
I have a problem with loosing the number of the fouler if I say the number of the shooter.

M&M Guy wrote
I usually have the same problem of keeping track of more than one number at a time when reporting a foul. That's why I try not to verbalize the shooter's number.

KJUmp wrote
I have the same problem.

I thought that I was the only one with this problem. I will point the shooter out to my partner, especially if it's an off the ball foul, like a rebounding foul, and I will try to see what the shooter looks like, i.e., tall, dark hair, glasses, headband, etc., but I won't look at the shooter's number, and I tell this to my partner in my pregame: Off official should help identifying free throw shooter.

Maybe we can start a support group: Officials Who Have Difficulty Remembering Two Numbers. At our first meeting we can talk about calling a double foul, and keeping the colors, and numbers, straight.

JugglingReferee

BillyMac wrote
I thought that I was the only one with this problem. I will point the shooter out to my partner, especially if it's an off the ball foul, like a rebounding foul, and I will try to see what the shooter looks like, i.e., tall, dark hair, glasses, headband, etc., but I won't look at the shooter's number, and I tell this to my partner in my pregame: Off official should help identifying free throw shooter.

Maybe we can start a support group: Officials Who Have Difficulty Remembering Two Numbers. At our first meeting we can talk about calling a double foul, and keeping the colors, and numbers, straight.

For help in trying to remember multiple numbers, you have to use word and number association.

For example, if the DF is Blue #24, and Red #50, it should be easy, since Labatt's Blue has 24 pops in a case, and Molson does have their pop called "50" which has a red label. 😀

BillyMac

JugglingReferee wrote
Labatt's Blue has 24 pops in a case, and Molson does have their pop called "50" which has a red label.

That's great for you Canucks. Most of us drink Budweiser, Miller, of Coors, down here, except for me. I've got to be the only person in the USA that still drinks Schaefer.

"Schaefer, is the, one beer to have, when you're having more than one."

CMHCoachNRef

Rita C wrote
What is some of the verbiage you all use to say the number of the shooter? I have a problem with loosing the number of the fouler if I say the number of the shooter.

Rita

Rita,
I will say Black 32, White 10 is the shooter. In 3-man, you are nearly always crossing paths with your table-side partner. I will let him/her know who the shooter is on the way by as well.

Generally, in most shooting situations, everyone in the gym knows who the shooter is. This mechanic only becomes important during rebounding situations where it might not be as clear who got fouled. As a matter of habit, I get both players -- fouler/foulee....

IREFU2

CMHCoachNRef wrote
Rita,
I will say Black 32, White 10 is the shooter. In 3-man, you are nearly always crossing paths with your table-side partner. I will let him/her know who the shooter is on the way by as well.

Generally, in most shooting situations, everyone in the gym knows who the shooter is. This mechanic only becomes important during rebounding situations where it might not be as clear who got fouled. As a matter of habit, I get both players -- fouler/foulee....

I do the same thing, but I will also point to my shooter as well.

Rich

M&M Guy wrote
That should be the responsibility of your partner(s). If it was me, I would verbalize, "I've got your shooter, Rita", and even point at the player. If there was any confusion as to who the shooter might be on a foul I called, I would point at the player and tell my partner, "Here's my shooter". I would then hope my partner(s) would keep track of that player.

I usually have the same problem of keeping track of more than one number at a time when reporting a foul. That's why I try not to verbalize the shooter's number, how many fouls they have, how many TO's the team has left...er...never mind.

The OP should be less hard on himself. He had TWO partners who should've been getting the shooter to the line. Point and say "I've got your shooter." How hard is that?

The OP had an unusual situation he had to deal with and his partners let him twist in the wind and he's beating HIMSELF up over it.

Scrapper1

CMHCoachNRef wrote
Rita,
I will say Black 32, White 10 is the shooter.

This is also what I (almost always 😠 ) do, except I don't say the color of the shooter, while pointing at the shooter.

M&M Guy

Scrapper1 wrote
This is also what I (almost always 😠 ) do, except I don't say the color of the shooter, while pointing at the shooter.

So, what did your partners say about getting your shooter?

Scrapper1

M&M Guy wrote
So, what did your partners say about getting your shooter?

They both said (correctly) that it was a failure of the whole crew. We all took a little nap at the wrong time.

I feel responsible, though, because a simple verbal indication would've prevented the whole thing.

M&M Guy

Scrapper1 wrote
They both said (correctly) that it was a failure of the whole crew. We all took a little nap at the wrong time.

I feel responsible, though, because a simple verbal indication would've prevented the whole thing.

Well, if it was a "garden-variety" foul (new definition - watch for it in the book next year...), I might agree with you somewhat. But it was an intentional, so it was a little harder than normal. You did what you needed to do, which was process the foul, upgrade it to intentional, stick around a moment longer to make sure no "knucklehead activity" occurs (another new definition...), and go to report it. If I was your partner, the mere fact that you called an intentional would've woke me up from my nap, and I would've been processing things like shooter, how many shots, where the ball will be put in play afterwards, etc.

Sounds like your partners were more likely in a coma, rather than taking a simple nap.

fullor30

JugglingReferee wrote
You must have meant to quote Scrapper1 and not me! :p

See, not only do I report wrong numbers...........I reply to wrong posters:confused:

Juulie Downs

M&M Guy wrote
That should be the responsibility of your partner(s).

I tend to work with lower level partners, who can't always live up to this responsibility, or just don't care much. Ive developed the habit of remembering the fouler's number, and also locking into my mind a picture of the foul happening, so that I can look at the other players after a minute or two to confirm who the shooter should be, if there's any doubt. It also gives me time to decide what foul to signal at the table (re-examine picture while walking to table, see arm around dribbler's waist, call hold instead of hits). "Who's shooting?" Re-examine picture, see black ponytail with pink holder, look around, "Number 32".