FIBA - citation needed for counting the basket

JugglingReferee

Play: A1 releases and then hits B1 with position, then lands. Ball goes in.

I need the citation that shows that the basket counts. I cannot find it.

Thanks!

Adam

When does player control end in FIBA? Seems to me that's your focal point here.

JugglingReferee

Snaqwells wrote
When does player control end in FIBA? Seems to me that's your focal point here.

PC ends on the release. I can find that no problem. I have less experience with the FIBA book (compared to the fed book), so I can't always find things. However, I know the rules. . .

Or, are you familiar with the FIBA book and are leading me to the water?

Adam

JugglingReferee wrote
PC ends on the release. I can find that no problem. I have less experience with the FIBA book (compared to the fed book), so I can't always find things. However, I know the rules. . .

Or, are you familiar with the FIBA book and are leading me to the water?

No, I just know that the reason for the difference between NFHS and NCAAM is with player control ending on the release in NCAAM. The same reference that says you count the basket if A2 fouls B1 after A1 releases his shot would work for this since player control has ended and A1 (in your sitch) is no longer tied to the ball in any way.

JugglingReferee

Snaqwells wrote
No, I just know that the reason for the difference between NFHS and NCAAM is with player control ending on the release in NCAAM. The same reference that says you count the basket if A2 fouls B1 after A1 releases his shot would work for this since player control has ended and A1 (in your sitch) is no longer tied to the ball in any way.

Good point. I will look again in that section, but I think I'm more confident with the Fed book because it is written better than the FIBA book, imho.

MTD, Sr works both, I think, so I'd love to hear his opinion.

Adam

JugglingReferee wrote
MTD, Sr works both, I think, so I'd love to hear his opinion.

I think he's hiding in his attic. It'll have to wait.

Raymond

Snaqwells wrote
I think he's hiding in his attic. It'll have to wait.

I think he flew to Seattle to have some Starbucks with Alex and BTTB.

JugglingReferee

BadNewsRef wrote
I thinking he flew to Seattle to have some Starbucks with Alex and BTTB.

Be careful - the pot's been stirred quite a bit here lately, and Alex might quote you. 😀

eg-italy

JugglingReferee wrote
Play: A1 releases and then hits B1 with position, then lands. Ball goes in.

I need the citation that shows that the basket counts. I cannot find it.

10.4 The ball does not become dead and the goal counts if made when:
• The ball is in flight on a shot for a field goal and:
– An official blows his whistle.
– The game clock signal sounds for the end of the period.
– The twenty-four second device signal sounds.

See also 41.2 (team foul penalty), 14.3 (control of the ball) and finally 16.1.1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains within or passes through the basket.

It's impossible to have a player control foul (and team control foul as well) when the ball has been released for a try.

Ciao

JugglingReferee

Thanks eg! I tried to send you a PM about this play, but. . .

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

eg-italy wrote
10.4 The ball does not become dead and the goal counts if made when:
• The ball is in flight on a shot for a field goal and:
– An official blows his whistle.
– The game clock signal sounds for the end of the period.
– The twenty-four second device signal sounds.

See also 41.2 (team foul penalty), 14.3 (control of the ball) and finally 16.1.1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains within or passes through the basket.

It's impossible to have a player control foul (and team control foul as well) when the ball has been released for a try.

Ciao

As we can see, my piazanno in Italy and given us the correct rules references, so I do not have to look them up on my copy of the FIBA Rules Book which I keep on my hard drive.

For all intenst and purposes, the NCAA Men's and FIBA rule is the same.

MTD, Sr.

eg-italy

JugglingReferee wrote
Thanks eg! I tried to send you a PM about this play, but. . .

Didn't receive any. 🙁

eg-italy

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
As we can see, my piazanno in Italy and given us the correct rules references, so I do not have to look them up on my copy of the FIBA Rules Book which I keep on my hard drive.

For all intenst and purposes, the NCAA Men's and FIBA rule is the same.

I always give correct rule references about FIBA 😎

But it's "paesano", not "piazanno". 🙂

Ciao (do you know how to say "ciao"?)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

eg-italy wrote
I always give correct rule references about FIBA 😎

But it's "paesano", not "piazanno". 🙂

Ciao (do you know how to say "ciao"?)

Eg:

I am so ashamed, 😮. My father would be spinning in his grave. Not only did I forget my Italian, I forgot my Latin, which would have been correct too.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Yes, I know how to say ciao, as well as a very bad word, known in the states as an F-bomb in Italian too, 😀.

JugglingReferee

eg-italy wrote
Didn't receive any. 🙁

You have the PM feature disabled.

eg-italy

JugglingReferee wrote
You have the PM feature disabled.

Really? 😮 Not any more.

Ciao

JugglingReferee

eg-italy wrote
10.4 The ball does not become dead and the goal counts if made when:
• The ball is in flight on a shot for a field goal and:
– An official blows his whistle.
– The game clock signal sounds for the end of the period.
– The twenty-four second device signal sounds.

See also 41.2 (team foul penalty), 14.3 (control of the ball) and finally 16.1.1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains within or passes through the basket.

It's impossible to have a player control foul (and team control foul as well) when the ball has been released for a try.

Ciao

I guess I am not accustomed to correlating 4 different rules to conclude something. I will read those 4 rules and see how they all relate.

eg-italy

JugglingReferee wrote
I guess I am not accustomed to correlating 4 different rules to conclude something. I will read those 4 rules and see how they all relate.

The important ones are the first and last I cited. In 16.1.1 there's the principle that says when a basket counts; article 10 tells us when the ball is dead or live, 10.3 is the part needed for your case. I cited also 41.2 and 14.3 just to show other applications of the principles that can help to sort out dubious situations.

Ciao

SmokeEater

eg-italy wrote
The important ones are the first and last I cited. In 16.1.1 there's the principle that says when a basket counts; article 10 tells us when the ball is dead or live, 10.3 is the part needed for your case. I cited also 41.2 and 14.3 just to show other applications of the principles that can help to sort out dubious situations.

Ciao

How does 15.2 play into this situation Juggler is talking about.

"Play: A1 releases and then hits B1 with position, then lands. Ball goes in."

The act of shooting:
Ends when the ball has left the player's hand(s) and, in the case of an airborne shooter, both feet have returned to the floor.

eg-italy

SmokeEater wrote
How does 15.2 play into this situation Juggler is talking about.

"Play: A1 releases and then hits B1 with position, then lands. Ball goes in."

The act of shooting:
Ends when the ball has left the player's hand(s) and, in the case of an airborne shooter, both feet have returned to the floor.

The act of shooting has nothing to do with ball control. A player cannot commit a team control foul when the ball is in its flight for a try; but an airborne shooter is still in the act of shooting after having released the ball.

Where's the problem? Being in the act of shooting determines the penalty if that player is fouled.

Ciao