Fun With An Elbow …

BillyMac

Who commits the first foul, offense or defense? Should this be ruled a player control foul for the shooter pushing off defender? Did the defender foul dribbler on the drive to the lane?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refquest-pro-dev-processed-videos/vUiWbAnPyBpIUDY2VYp9/8L6fsKSb6V1ZpSAlpNXi/8L6fsKSb6V1ZpSAlpNXi.mp4?GoogleAccessId=firebase-adminsdk-0yzpe%40refquest-pro-dev.iam.gserviceaccount.com&Expires=16447017600&Signature=b1rLATdUguC0Wf54CpB3%2FoSJP5NAj3sNTT4pqK3dhAeLud96ou07La5GPdBXv%2BfkzuBv5m%2Bc7EYiu%2ByKNAw1OFdGan%2FAGYugdBGo9I69eHQ7dkeopHtJvaCxSmDESGQZ%2BsgtzuFx0wEEjKxKg%2BH08Ivbjs0txcgv2nvUPyebBd22lDjrtiGSReoAK0R2jjbPBt6U2WMbpaEVFtztVzBpQR0HJHGIbVseXH9jOQjOpy7iq8oVUOreRusCw%2BBg6ny459bwkqSTRWSuqvFfJ4gQOsOWxIhFON0UbbhXVC83sXDXIeMZNpuDkkeT8vj27k9GaLSotvgzh7bIV0uRYhhF0Q%3D%3D

Three choices: This is a defensive foul. This is a player control foul. This is incidental contact.

My comment: This is a player control foul. Ball handler Black #25 uses the right side of his body and his right elbow to push off defender White #12.

Nevadaref

Incidental contact.

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
Incidental contact.

The "hot stove" touch by White #12? Sure. Incidental contact.

Please take another look at how ball handler Black #25 uses his right arm to create separation with White #12, giving him a little extra room to take that successful short jumper.

However, the Center official had a great look and did pass on a call.

BillyMac

Anybody notice Black #25 lifting his pivot foot before he releases the ball to start his dribble?

Let's see if IAABO picks that up in its play commentary.

BillyMac wrote
However, the Center official had a great look and did pass on a call.

JRutledge

Very borderline. I would pass on this unless my partner had called this earlier in the game.

Peace

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
Very borderline. I would pass on this unless my partner had called this earlier in the game.

Good point. From the "extended" version of my pregame conference:

Be consistent with each other, and with what has already happened in the game, what we’ve called, and what we haven’t called.

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
Anybody notice Black #25 lifting his pivot foot before he releases the ball to start his dribble?

Let's see if IAABO picks that up in its play commentary.

I think it's significant enough to call a travel because he actually uses the move to change his positioning.

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crosscountry55

JRutledge wrote
Very borderline. I would pass on this unless my partner had called this earlier in the game.

Peace

Agree. Real time, honestly I didn’t see that arm push-off. So probably a PCF. But with two good teams and a good game flow, if we haven’t had a call like this 16 minutes into the first half, than I don’t think we want to have one now.

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BillyMac

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is a player control foul.

The most obvious contact on the play is that of the offensive player pushing into the defender's torso to clear space to attempt the try. This contact gained an advantage for the ball handler, and there is rules support to charge a player control foul. 59% of respondents chose this as the correct ruling. 28% of respondents believed the defender illegally contacted the dribbler before the offense-initiated contact occurred.

Rule 10-7-12c states that placing and keeping a hand on a ball handler is a foul. If this occurred, there would be rules support to charge a handchecking foul on this play before the offense-initiated contact occurred.

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is a player control foul 59% (including me). This is a defensive foul 28%. This is incidental contact 12%.

Camron Rust

Offensive player used his body to create space with a defender with LGP.....PCF.