FT with And 1

Valley Man

"Score the goal" .. all 3 officials mirror ONE shot .. the first shot comes off the rim and no one moves .. period. The inside defensive player gathers the rebound and tosses it to the L for what they think is another shot.

ilyazhito

I'd give the ball to A (the team that shot the free throw)at the nearest spot to where B threw the ball to the Lead. This would be if the Lead was out of bounds.

If the Lead was inbounds when he caught the ball, I would administer a jump ball (AP throw-in to the team with the arrow, for leagues that don't have in-game jump balls), because the ball became dead in the official's possession without team control.

CJP

Valley Man wrote
"Score the goal" .. all 3 officials mirror ONE shot .. the first shot comes off the rim and no one moves .. period. The inside defensive player gathers the rebound and tosses it to the L for what they think is another shot.

I would go to the arrow.

Nevadaref

ilyazhito wrote
I'd give the ball to A (the team that shot the free throw)at the nearest spot to where B threw the ball to the Lead. This would be if the Lead was out of bounds.

If the Lead was inbounds when he caught the ball, I would administer a jump ball (AP throw-in to the team with the arrow, for leagues that don't have in-game jump balls), because the ball became dead in the official's possession without team control.

If the L is standing inbounds and no official sounds a whistle, what rule makes the ball dead?
Also, when did team control end following B1 rebounding the ball?

MattReferee

Isn’t the Lead suppose to be OFF the floor regardless? If NO second free throw is scheduled??? It’s happened to me and I’ve jus moved swiftly out of way as ball landed out of bounds🙋🏼*♂️🏀 Please someone clarify 3man L being ON Floor

bob jenkins

MattReferee wrote
Isn’t the Lead suppose to be OFF the floor regardless? If NO second free throw is scheduled??? It’s happened to me and I’ve jus moved swiftly out of way as ball landed out of bounds🙋🏼*♂️🏀 Please someone clarify 3man L being ON Floor

If it's really the last FT, then the L is off the court.

If L (and apparently others) thought it was the first of multiple FTs, then some mechanics allow the L to be on the floor.

Raymond

ilyazhito wrote
...

If the Lead was inbounds when he caught the ball, I would administer a jump ball (AP throw-in to the team with the arrow, for leagues that don't have in-game jump balls), because the ball became dead in the official's possession without team control.

How do you figure there was no TC if a defensive player REBOUNDED the missed shot and then passed the ball?

One of my pet peeves is when officials think TC ends because of an errand pass.

JRutledge

If it was communicated properly, the player made a mistake. We officiate mistakes often in this game. Why would we treat this any different?

Give the ball to the team that shot the FT.

Peace

CJP

JRutledge wrote
If it was communicated properly, the player made a mistake. We officiate mistakes often in this game. Why would we treat this any different?

Give the ball to the team that shot the FT.

Peace

I changed my mind and I now agree with this. If I am certain that I communicated properly, I am going to give the ball to the shooting team.

SC Official

Sometimes HS players just fall asleep. If everything was communicated properly just treat it like a regular OOB call. One coach is likely to be upset either way.

JRutledge

SC Official wrote
Sometimes HS players just fall asleep. If everything was communicated properly just treat it like a regular OOB call. One coach is likely to be upset either way.

Yeah, the coach will be upset that is player was not paying attention.

What I find funny is that players will ask you what number of FTs were shot well after you gave the ball to the FT shooter. What the hell do they think you are in the lane doing?

Peace

ilyazhito

Raymond wrote
How do you figure there was no TC if a defensive player REBOUNDED the missed shot and then passed the ball?

One of my pet peeves is when officials think TC ends because of an errand pass.

How can there be TEAM control if the ball is possessed by an official? AFAIK, officials are not members of either team, so if they have control of the ball (when administering a jump ball, free throw, or throw-in), no team us in team control.

There cannot be team control if the ball is out-of-bounds, because the ball becomes dead upon gaining out-of-bounds status.

Raymond

ilyazhito wrote
How can there be TEAM control if the ball is possessed by an official? AFAIK, officials are not members of either team, so if they have control of the ball (when administering a jump ball, free throw, or throw-in), no team us in team control.

There cannot be team control if the ball is out-of-bounds, because the ball becomes dead upon gaining out-of-bounds status.

If the official is out of bounds then the ball is out of bounds. If the official was in bounds the official is part of the floor, so how did the team lose team control?

That's a basic of basketball knowledge. You are supposed to know how a team can team control. And throwing a pass that is caught or touched by an official is not one of them.

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ilyazhito

I'm surprised there is no casebook play for this situation, but assuming the lead is using proper mechanics for this play, he will be out-of-bounds, so this discussion is moot. A ball at the spot nearest to the ball going out of bounds.

JRutledge

ilyazhito wrote
I'm surprised there is no casebook play for this situation, but assuming the lead is using proper mechanics for this play, he will be out-of-bounds, so this discussion is moot. A ball at the spot nearest to the ball going out of bounds.

This is not a situation that needs a casebook play.

Peace

BillyMac

ilyazhito wrote
How can there be TEAM control if the ball is possessed by an official?

Assuming the lead was inbounds ...

Because the rule says so. Ask yourself who had team control before it was controlled by the official?

RULE 4 SECTION 12 CONTROL, PLAYER AND TEAM
ART. 1 A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or -
dribbling a live ball. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a
jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper,
or during an interrupted dribble.
ART. 2 A team is in control of the ball:
a. When a player of the team is in control.
b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates.
c. During an interrupted dribble.
d. When a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw-in.
ART. 3 Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
ART. 4 While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in
control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap
for goal.

If the official, while holding the ball, moves his pivot foot in excess of the legal limitations are you going to call a travel violation?

For all intents and purposes the official is part of the floor.

BillyMac

bob jenkins wrote
If L (and apparently others) thought it was the first of multiple FTs ...

Any chance of miscommunication, or misunderstanding by all the players, I'm going with the possession arrow.

Below is certainly not a completely relevant casebook play, but it's the only one that's close:

8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-
one free-throw situation. The administering official steps
in and erroneously informs players that two free throws will
be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed free
throw is rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players
motionless in anticipation of another throw; (b) A2, with all
other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; or
(c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to
secure the rebound. The officials recognize their error at this
point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's error clearly put
one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and
didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be ruled dead
immediately and resumed using the alternating-possession
procedure. In (c), both teams made an attempt to rebound
despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to
gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3; 2-
10)

bob jenkins

BillyMac wrote
Any chance of miscommunication, or misunderstanding by all the players, I'm going with the possession arrow.

Yes

I might get together with, or look at, my partners to see if anyone signaled "two shots." If we all had "one shot" then it's on the players.

MattReferee

ilyazhito wrote
I'm surprised there is no casebook play for this situation, but assuming the lead is using proper mechanics for this play, he will be out-of-bounds, so this discussion is moot. A ball at the spot nearest to the ball going out of bounds.

I think this is what I said and agree !!!

billyu2

Valley Man wrote
"Score the goal" .. all 3 officials mirror ONE shot .. the first shot comes off the rim and no one moves .. period. The inside defensive player gathers the rebound and tosses it to the L for what they think is another shot.

Had a very similar situation many years ago. Two person, trail administers free throws back then. I was Trail. Stepped in, said "one shot", gave ball to the shooter. Free throw bounced off front of the rim right back to the shooter. No one moves. Shooter catches the ball. Bounce-catch, bounce-catch as if he gets another try. After I put my jaw back in place, I blew the whistle and signaled double dribble.