Obstruction-rundown

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Think I tanked this one...
Men's modified. No outs. R1 on 1B. Grounder to F8. R1 rounds 2B and is OBS by F6. F8 fires to 3B and starts a rundown. After a while, R1 is tagged out sliding into 2B. "Dead ball, obstruction, I have the runner protected right here (2B)"

R2 is standing on 2B at the time. Fielder tags R1 (I make my call), then R2. I call R2 out because the lead runner owns the base.

How can I call an out on a runner when I just called dead ball?

I thought it was just bad base running by R2, since the rundown gave him time to see R1 might have to come back to 2B.

Is this textbook "another runner having been affected by the OBS" and send him back to 1B?

This is what I understand about the play.


R1 was the obstructed runner, who was tagged out between the bases he was obstructed between. The ball is dead, and R2 is awarded the base you feel he would have attained had the obstruction not occurred. R2 advanced to second during the rundown and had legally attained 2b well the rundown was in progress.

I have R2 going back to 1b on this play? Why? If the R2 had not been obstructed and was tagged out sliding back into second, R1 would have legally attained the base. When you are awarding the base to R2 as a result of the obstruction, you need to put the R1 back to first base because at that point he has been affected by the obstruction.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I have R2 going back to 1b on this play? Why? If the R2 had not been obstructed and was tagged out sliding back into second, R1 would have legally attained the base. When you are awarding the base to R2 as a result of the obstruction, you need to put the R1 back to first base because at that point he has been affected by the obstruction.

How was the trailing runner affected by the OBS? The umpire has judged that had the OBS not occurred, the runner would have returned to 2B anyway, so the trailing runner would have been tagged out whether there was OBS or not

[jmkupka]

Irish,
so you're saying it was right to call R2 out? I'm lost.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Irish,
so you're saying it was right to call R2 out? I'm lost.

No. He's not. To be clear there are two plays going on here (mostly my fault, so let me try and clarify.) As I understand it here's where the discussion stands.

In your play the obstructed runner was put out. Nothing can ever happen after that and placement of the runners is the only question. The rules seem to require you to put the obstructed runner in the correct spot (2b) and then move the other runner back. Irish doesn't like that as it's inconsistent but agrees it is the rule.

In the other play, the obstructed runner is not put out. This leaves R2 standing as a second runner on second base. He can be put out. People's position on this is a little murkier but Irish seems to be saying that R2 wasn't affected by the obstruction so just call R2 out and move on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

All I'm saying is that the trail runner was not affected by the OBS therefore gets no protection if the umpire had determine the proper award for the OBS was 2B

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Irish,
so you're saying it was right to call R2 out? I'm lost.

More accurately, as often is the case with some, I believe Irish is pointing out that the poster had the right answer but the wrong reason.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Andy

Yeah...i have a problem with that.

I get that the obstruction rule is not a punitive rule, but only sets things back to the way they would have been absent the obstruction.

In your situation, however, your solution encourages the defense to obstruct since at worst, nothing changes and at best, they get an out. I'm more inclined to rule that the obstructed runner is awarded second and the other runner is awarded third because they were affected by the obstruction.

I have always been inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the offense in an obstruction scenario.

I agree, Andy. Our softball obstruction rules provide no reason not to obstruct on every play since all we do is to remove the effect of the obstruction. I also tend to give the benefit of any doubt to the offense.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

I agree, Andy. Our softball obstruction rules provide no reason not to obstruct on every play since all we do is to remove the effect of the obstruction. I also tend to give the benefit of any doubt to the offense.

There is little doubt that you SHOULD give the benefit of any doubt to the offense. Think about it. How many OBS are intentional compared to one player just getting in the way of the other?

I have no problem with the present rule, but sometimes I question how some umpires get so tight with the enforcement. Some actually look for reasons to penalize or ignore parts of the rule when it isn't really that difficult.

[tcannizzo]

While it is generally true, OBS is not punitive, there are exceptions.
One that comes to mind that is not a TWP is this:
B bunts ball to right side. F1 fields the ball, but F3 OBS. Award BR 1B, even though she would have been out by a mile.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

All I'm saying is that the trail runner was not affected by the OBS therefore gets no protection if the umpire had determine the proper award for the OBS was 2B

And just to make this a little clearer, I am referring to the scenario where a tag was available after the OBS returned to the base safely