Ball hits a tree

[chapmaja]

Ok, here is a question regarding a field I work on occasion. Over the left field corner there is a tree that overhangs into left field (fair territory). What is the proper ruling if a batted ball hits the tree.

I have always been told it is a foul ball, but a couple weeks ago the ruling was supposedly a do over in this instance.

I can see the do over as a possibility if the ball is in fair territory because you can put both teams in jeopardy with the ball hitting the tree. The ball hitting the tree could prevent a ball from clearing the fence for a home run. It could also prevent the defense from making a catch on the batted ball.

What is the official ASA ruling on this. Also, what is the NFHS ruling on this because I will be at a couple fields next spring that will have this issue, but over the third base line on the infield.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Ok, here is a question regarding a field I work on occasion. Over the left field corner there is a tree that overhangs into left field (fair territory). What is the proper ruling if a batted ball hits the tree.

I have always been told it is a foul ball, but a couple weeks ago the ruling was supposedly a do over in this instance.

I can see the do over as a possibility if the ball is in fair territory because you can put both teams in jeopardy with the ball hitting the tree. The ball hitting the tree could prevent a ball from clearing the fence for a home run. It could also prevent the defense from making a catch on the batted ball.

What is the official ASA ruling on this. Also, what is the NFHS ruling on this because I will be at a couple fields next spring that will have this issue, but over the third base line on the infield.

Should be covered at the plate meeting when discussing ground rules. There is a local field that had a tree over-hanging the left center field fence. If the ball hit the tree and went over the fence, HR, if the ball hit the tree and came down in fair territory, ground rule double. Luckliy this season, someone had trimmed the tree and was not in play this year.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Ok, here is a question regarding a field I work on occasion. Over the left field corner there is a tree that overhangs into left field (fair territory). What is the proper ruling if a batted ball hits the tree.

I have always been told it is a foul ball, but a couple weeks ago the ruling was supposedly a do over in this instance.

I can see the do over as a possibility if the ball is in fair territory because you can put both teams in jeopardy with the ball hitting the tree. The ball hitting the tree could prevent a ball from clearing the fence for a home run. It could also prevent the defense from making a catch on the batted ball.

What is the official ASA ruling on this. Also, what is the NFHS ruling on this because I will be at a couple fields next spring that will have this issue, but over the third base line on the infield.

This is to be covered by the local ground rules. This will not be covered in official ASA (or NFHS) rules or rulings, since official ASA (or NFHS) fields do not have overhanging trees! This should be discussed at the plate meeting so both coaches know what the ground rule is dealing with the tree.

[Tru_in_Blu]

If I'm new to a field, I'll ask the home team manager for their ground rules.

If it's a tournament setting and some vegetation has encroached into LBT, we'll deal w/ it as a ground rule. Example might be if a batted ball goes into the bushes, it's 2 bases. Another might be if a foul ball hits overhanging tree branches, it's a dead ball.

We have one field that has an electrical or phone type of wire that crosses from left field about 60 feet beyond 3rd base out to another pole in left-center field. When I work that field, it's for a church league. I've told them any ball that hits or doesn't hit the wire is a live ball. If a line drive that's heading to the next county hits that wire and then falls into a fielder's glove, I have an out. If a fielder is camped under a high fly ball and the ball hits the wire and falls to the ground, live ball and play on.

I've explained this ground rule as an act of God, and so far, it's played well for this league.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I've explained this ground rule as an act of God, and so far, it's played well for this league.

As long as you (or they) want to believe that God really pays enough attention to generate or affect this act of random chance, go for it.

[EsqUmp]

If it hits in fair territory, the ball is live and it is a "no catch." If it hits in foul territory, the ball is dead and it is a "no catch."

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I can see the do over as a possibility...

NO! NO! NO!

That's what ground rules are for, as others have alluded. You put ground rules into effect for field anomalies that you won't find in regulation fields. And ground rules should never, EVER result in "do-overs" just because the anomaly can affect both teams. Rather, the ground rules should result in a fair and equitable ruling as if the anomaly wasn't present.

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The ball hitting the tree could prevent a ball from clearing the fence for a home run.

And that's what the ground rule should be. Any fair batted ball that was destined to clear the fence in flight should be ruled a home run.

Originally Posted by chapmaja

It could also prevent the defense from making a catch on the batted ball.

So what? Both teams are affected by that when they are on defense.

I have never seen a ground rule that allows for a fielder to be given credit for a catch when the anomaly prevents the fielder from doing so. A number of high school and college fields here have rolled-up tarps against the fence in foul territory. Should a batted fly ball go near the tarp and prevent the fielder from making a catch, we don't award the fielder with a catch. It's just a foul ball.

So I wouldn't suggest a ground rule that allows the defense to be credited with a catch on a ball that hits the tree and wasn't going to clear the fence. An equitable ground rule would be a dead ball with a two-base award. Leaving the ball live wouldn't make much sense because it could take the ball a while to come out of the tree.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Also, what is the NFHS ruling on this because I will be at a couple fields next spring that will have this issue, but over the third base line on the infield.

Wait ... REALLY? You have a HIGH SCHOOL field that has a tree overhanging the third base line in the INFIELD? Am I misreading this?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

And ground rules should never, EVER result in "do-overs" just because the anomaly can affect both teams. Rather, the ground rules should result in a fair and equitable ruling as if the anomaly wasn't present.

Why? If the field is weird and it's fair for both teams why can't you have a ground rule that states, for example in a YSIFL game: in the event of a land mine detonation after the pitch has left the pitchers hand and before it has reached the batter, no pitch shall be ruled?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wait ... REALLY? You have a HIGH SCHOOL field that has a tree overhanging the third base line in the INFIELD? Am I misreading this?

We have a number of high schools who use city park fields. While I can't think of one that does have an obstruction, I wouldn't think such a thing would be unheard of at all. Not all states can afford to spend $60 million on high school sports stadiums with built-in cracks!

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by youngump

Why? If the field is weird and it's fair for both teams why can't you have a ground rule that states, for example in a YSIFL game: in the event of a land mine detonation after the pitch has left the pitchers hand and before it has reached the batter, no pitch shall be ruled?

Yours is a case where the ball hasn't been put into play. And a land mine detonation is not a static anomaly on the field, which is the purpose of a ground rule.

Your example is more akin to the "Randy Johnson Hitting a Dove" rule.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

We have a number of high schools who use city park fields. While I can't think of one that does have an obstruction, I wouldn't think such a thing would be unheard of at all. Not all states can afford to spend $60 million on high school sports stadiums with built-in cracks!

I get that all games are not played on expensive parks. But I honestly cannot even imagine a field where there were trees overhanging fair ground in the INFIELD. No level of ball could really be played on that field. Tee-ball I suppose. It doesn't take $60M to cut down a tree.

[Andy]

I work a HS tournament every year at small town school that uses both of their practice fields to play tournament games on.

On one of the fields there is a large tree outside the fence on the first base side where the tree branches overhang the field in foul territory starting just past first base and going back along the fence for twenty feet or so. No part of the tree overhangs fair ball ground.

Our ground rule is that if the ball touches the tree, it becomes a foul ball and dead.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I get that all games are not played on expensive parks. But I honestly cannot even imagine a field where there were trees overhanging fair ground in the INFIELD. No level of ball could really be played on that field. Tee-ball I suppose. It doesn't take $60M to cut down a tree.

Agree. A tree that close to the players is just downright dangerous, not only from batted balls that ricochet off of it, but also falling branches, potential lightning strikes, etc. Assuming a normal-sized field with adequate foul-territory spacing, you're talking about a huge tree if it has branches that overhang that far! I personally wouldn't call a game on that field because it's essentially unplayable.

At the very least, someone should cut back those branches.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

I work a HS tournament every year at small town school that uses both of their practice fields to play tournament games on.

On one of the fields there is a large tree outside the fence on the first base side where the tree branches overhang the field in foul territory starting just past first base and going back along the fence for twenty feet or so. No part of the tree overhangs fair ball ground.

Our ground rule is that if the ball touches the tree, it becomes a foul ball and dead.

I play on one with a tree maybe 10 feet shy of the home run fence, planted inches from the Dead Ball fence on the first base side. Limbs overhang about a third of foul ground. Our ground rule matches yours.