Everyone Stopped!

[Manny A]

As relayed to me by a colleague, who was BU:

Sitch: 12U ASA tourney game. No runners. BU calls an IP because F1 leaped on the pitch. He said it loud enough that everyone heard it. Batter hits a ground ball to F6. Then...nothing. BR doesn't move from the box, F6 doesn't make a play to first, nothing. F6 simply throws the ball back to F1.

As soon as the PU sees the lack of activity, he goes to the head coach (in the third base box) and tells him that there was an IP, resulting in a ball on the batter. He never waited to see if someone would get a clue and make a play, nor did he ever kill play before explaining the effect to the coach. Play resumes with a ball on the batter, much to the chagrin of the BU.

So, what should have happened? Wait and wait and wait until either F6 throws the ball to first and/or the BR takes off for first? Kill play and rule the BR out for abandoning her responsibilities? Kill play and inform the coach of the effect?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

As relayed to me by a colleague, who was BU:

Sitch: 12U ASA tourney game. No runners. BU calls an IP because F1 leaped on the pitch. He said it loud enough that everyone heard it. Batter hits a ground ball to F6. Then...nothing. BR doesn't move from the box, F6 doesn't make a play to first, nothing. F6 simply throws the ball back to F1.

As soon as the PU sees the lack of activity, he goes to the head coach (in the third base box) and tells him that there was an IP, resulting in a ball on the batter. He never waited to see if someone would get a clue and make a play, nor did he ever kill play before explaining the effect to the coach. Play resumes with a ball on the batter, much to the chagrin of the BU.

So, what should have happened? Wait and wait and wait until either F6 throws the ball to first and/or the BR takes off for first? Kill play and rule the BR out for abandoning her responsibilities? Kill play and inform the coach of the effect?

Assuming this is fastpitch, in this situation, it doesn't matter. Unless the OC has some bizarre preference for having his batter declared out, the end result will be a ball on the batter. Waiting for the clueless to get a clue is a waste of time since it will have no effect on the game.

Why was the BU chagrined? What did he want to happen?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Assuming this is fastpitch, in this situation, it doesn't matter. Unless the OC has some bizarre preference for having his batter declared out, the end result will be a ball on the batter. Waiting for the clueless to get a clue is a waste of time since it will have no effect on the game.

Having been in that situation with some extremely unskilled players, I eventually whispered to the girl to run to first where she was promptly thrown out. I don't have any strong disagreement with what Dakota said but I'm pretty sure they'll learn better what to expect if you don't kill the ball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

...He said it loud enough that everyone heard it...

Here is the umpiring mistake that led to everyone stopping!

Works with "obstruction", too!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Here is the umpiring mistake that led to everyone stopping!

Works with "obstruction", too!

^^ beat me to it, Tom.

I have little doubt that this is why part of the instruction to the umpire is to say it loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear, and if OBS, just the closest player.

People have a tendency to stop playing when they hear the umpire verbalize just about anything prior to a play being made.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Assuming this is fastpitch, in this situation, it doesn't matter. Unless the OC has some bizarre preference for having his batter declared out, the end result will be a ball on the batter. Waiting for the clueless to get a clue is a waste of time since it will have no effect on the game.

Why was the BU chagrined? What did he want to happen?

In this situation, the proper procedure is to let the play continue and then, after all playing action has ceased, kill the play and talk to the coach. Why? What if eventually the batter realizes what has happened and takes off for first base (or a coach realizes it and tells her to take off for first) and the pitcher overthrows first base, allowing the runner to at least advance to first, if not beyond. By killing the situation (which the PU really never did), you are potentially disadvantaging the offensive team.

This situation is no different than a batter who hits a ball that is ruled fair, but both teams think is foul. Play may not go on, but by rule nothing has killed the play.

Eventually if the umpires stand around long enough someone will realize what is going on and make a play/run to first base, or the time limit will expire. (In reality, if I stand around for a minute and nothing happens, I'm calling the play dead and then handling the situation as best as it can be handled by the book).

I'm sure the BU was chagrined in part because the PU never actually killed the play and just went to talk to the coach.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Assuming this is fastpitch, in this situation, it doesn't matter. Unless the OC has some bizarre preference for having his batter declared out, the end result will be a ball on the batter. Waiting for the clueless to get a clue is a waste of time since it will have no effect on the game.

Why was the BU chagrined? What did he want to happen?

It was FP, and the BU was chagrined because the PU went over to inform the OC that there was an IP and his batter was awarded a ball, essentially ignoring the fact that play was still live and he never killed it.

I guess my question goes back to procedure. Is the lack of any action a justifiable reason to kill play and make the announcement? Or should something have precipitated the dead ball declaration (like ruling the BR out for abandonment) so that the umpire doesn't inadvertently kill it right when someone gets a clue and starts running or starts making the play?

And I don't care for the solution of whispering to the runner that she should take off for first base. I prefer making an announcement that the ball is live so that neither team is given an advantage.

[BretMan]

Almost this exact same thing happened to me last weekend.

Pitcher steps onto the plate with both hands already joined. I call and signal "illegal". Pitch comes in, batter grounds to F4.

Then, batter turns around and looks at me like, "What's going on?". F4 fields the ball and just stands there. Nobody's doing anything except looking at me.

I removed my mask and stepped out a few feet along the third base line, ready to trail the play to first- if it ever came. Finally, somebody catches on. From the dugout I hear, "Throw it to first base!". Finally, F4 did.

That part was strange. Unfortunately, what came next wasn't. Defensive coach wants to know why an IP was called. Then I get the inevitable, "But she always pitches like that and no one's ever called it".

As for the "OC having some bizzare preference for having his batter called out"...what if the clueless F4 made haphazard throw to first that went out of play.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Manny A

It was FP, and the BU was chagrined because the PU went over to inform the OC that there was an IP and his batter was awarded a ball, essentially ignoring the fact that play was still live and he never killed it.

I guess my question goes back to procedure. Is the lack of any action a justifiable reason to kill play and make the announcement? Or should something have precipitated the dead ball declaration (like ruling the BR out for abandonment) so that the umpire doesn't inadvertently kill it right when someone gets a clue and starts running or starts making the play?

And I don't care for the solution of whispering to the runner that she should take off for first base. I prefer making an announcement that the ball is live so that neither team is given an advantage.

I would agree, if you say something it needs to be said so both teams are aware of what was said. Whispering just to the runner and maybe the catcher hears it, has the potential to disadvantage the defense, while giving an advantage to the offense over the defense. If you say anything, at this point it needs to be said so that both teams (and both coaches can hear it).

[Dakota]

Of course I know what the proper thing to do is, but overall the PU killing the play is not a big deal, IMO, given that the ball had been returned to the pitcher with still no action by either team, and the overall level of play.

But, the lessons this crew needs to learn go beyond that. First, the BU should not be shouting "illegal" and putting everyone on the field and in both dugouts into a "what now" mode, and second, the PU should not be killing the play by implication.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

People have a tendency to stop playing when they hear the umpire verbalize just about anything prior to a play being made.

Tell me about it. In a social club league I play in, we had a guy umpiring who I'm familiar with.

All is going well until partway through the game, a ball is hit close to the line in fair territory, and he yells an emphatic "FAIR BALL!"

At the sound of the letter "F", everyone freezes for a half second until they hear the word "fair".

I'm in the first base coaching box shaking my head.

[MD Longhorn]

Take off the mask and move into position - one team or the other will figure it out.

And I'd have been "chagrinned" too if my partner was talking to a coach during a live ball. If he's GOT to kill it, then kill it. I don't think you have to - moving to position and looking "ready for a call" has always been enough to cause SOMEONE to notice that the play was live.

[UmpireErnie]

Had somewhat similar play in JV high school game this year.

R1 on 3B. 2 out. Batter hits down 3B line just fair. R1 off for home with hit. F5 make great play on ball followed by horrible throw to F2, ball goes to backstop. R1 comes in and scores.

Meanwhile batter (now a BR) has picked up her bat and returns to batters box.

I leave my mask off and take a position in foul ground on 1B line extended and wait. My partner and I make eye contact and kinda grin at each other as apparently we are the only two who realize what's going on.

After a few seconds offense coach in 3B box says "What's up blue?" I turn and say "Your batter hit a fair ball and I'm waiting for the play to be over."

Defense suddenly gets clue and throws to 1B for third out. I turn and say "That's three, prior run does NOT score".

[bsnalex]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Tell me about it. In a social club league I play in, we had a guy umpiring who I'm familiar with.

All is going well until partway through the game, a ball is hit close to the line in fair territory, and he yells an emphatic "FAIR BALL!"

At the sound of the letter "F", everyone freezes for a half second until they hear the word "fair".

I'm in the first base coaching box shaking my head.

Why is the ump yelling "FAIR BALL"? Unless I was taught incorrectly, you only ever say "Foul Ball" and if it's a close call that's fair, point to fair territory. That way, the flow of the play doesn't stop. Runner keeps running unless he/she hears something, fielders play the ball unless they hear something.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by bsnalex

Why is the ump yelling "FAIR BALL"? Unless I was taught incorrectly, you only ever say "Foul Ball" and if it's a close call that's fair, point to fair territory. That way, the flow of the play doesn't stop. Runner keeps running unless he/she hears something, fielders play the ball unless they hear something.

Oh, I agree with you. It's just been my observation that this particular social league doesn't necessarily use umpires certified by any governing body. This occasionally results in some odd rulings/interpretations, such as:

• A player may be called for BOO by the umpire, even without an appeal and even after a pitch has been thrown to the next batter;
• A runner hasn't committed interference if the collision with the protected fielder is an accident;
• It's not an infield fly if the ball is caught inside the pitcher's box/circle;

When arguing these are incorrect becomes fruitless, all one can do is grin, bear it, and

As the catcher, I was half-tempted in the following half-inning to casually mention that "fair ball" shouldn't be verbalized, but figured it wouldn't be well-received.