The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 02:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 12
Cool

I am a new 12U travel coach with several questions concerning ASA substitution rules/ using the DEFO, etc. It seems that in several tournament we have been in, other coaches have a little more savy in changing their players around, than I. If someone could give me a quick study for dummies guide on using the DEFO effectively, I would appreciate it. Also if you have a substitute player on the bench, in a tournament can she run for anyone, not just the pitcher or catcher, also once coming into the game, can she only run for that girl, or next inning can she run for a different girl ???, Or is she tied to that player. If anyone could give me some help, advise I would be most appreciative.......Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 08:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 7,720
Welcome to the board, Palmer!

Wow! Lotsa stuff to cover.

I'll start with the easy one. (BTW, you say 12U; I'm assuming fastpitch).

Quote:
. Also if you have a substitute player on the bench, in a tournament can she run for anyone, not just the pitcher or catcher, also once coming into the game, can she only run for that girl, or next inning can she run for a different girl ???, Or is she tied to that player.
Let's split this into two questions: 1) Courtesy runner, and 2) Pinch runner. They are different, and treated differently in the rules.

1) Courtesy runner... A courtesy runner is a runner who runs for another player without it being a charged substitution. (ASA Rule 1 DEFINITIONS).

A courtesy runner may be used for the pitcher or catcher only (ASA Rule 8-10A).

A courtesy runner may be any eligible substitute who has not been in the game (8-10C).

The courtesy runner for the pitcher may not be the CR for the catcher (and vice versa). Note: this is position, not person. If you sub for a new pitcher, the same CR for the old pitcher may be the CR for the new pitcher. If you move your catcher in to pitch, the CR for the catcher may NOT become the CR for the pitcher (8-10A).

A courtesy runner is not a charged substitute, so she is eligible to be used as a sub for any other player in a later inning (but not in the same inning she ran as a CR - exception: injury / DQ and she is the last sub available) (DEFINITIONS and 8-10D).

The DP may not have a CR, even if the DP is batting for the pitcher or catcher.

The "pitcher" and the "catcher" who may have a CR is the last player to play those positions in the last half inning (exception: first half of 1st inning - they are the players listed on the lineup card in the F1 and F2 positions). IOW, you may not have a CR for the pitcher or catcher you intend to enter in the next half inning (8-10B).

2) Pinch runner...The ASA rules do not specifically recognize the "pinch runner" by name, but it is just an ordinary substitution. You may use any eligible substitute as a pinch runner. Once you substitute any player on offense (including pinch runner), that sub may only bat / run in that position in the batting order (ASA 4-5C). Again, this is batting-order position, not person.

Regarding DP/DEFO, the name has been changed in 2004 to DP/Flex. I would recommend that you become completely comfortable with the standard subsitution rules first. Then, moving into DP/Flex will be much easier.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 09:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 7,720
BTW, if you are ready and want to do some reading about DP/Flex, check out the handout section on this web site:

Gulf Coast Blue's Site

There are two handouts there on DP/DEFO. Just remember to change the acronym DEFO to Flex, and everything still applies.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 12:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 4,877
Welcome a"board", Palmer. And, by the masterful and energetic response you received from one of our best resources, you now know why this is useful.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 12:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orange County NY
Posts: 589
Send a message via Yahoo to ASA/NYSSOBLUE
The DP/Flex was discussed recently and is summed up pretty good about halfway down this page and welcome to the board-wish MORE coaches would ask questions like you!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 01:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 13,176
Quote:
Originally posted by Dakota
Welcome to the board, Palmer!

1) Courtesy runner... A courtesy runner is a runner who runs for another player without it being a charged substitution. (ASA Rule 1 DEFINITIONS).

A courtesy runner may be used for the pitcher or catcher only (ASA Rule 8-10A).

A courtesy runner may be any eligible substitute who has not been in the game (8-10C).

The courtesy runner for the pitcher may not be the CR for the catcher (and vice versa). Note: this is position, not person. If you sub for a new pitcher, the same CR for the old pitcher may be the CR for the new pitcher. If you move your catcher in to pitch, the CR for the catcher may NOT become the CR for the pitcher (8-10A).

A courtesy runner is not a charged substitute, so she is eligible to be used as a sub for any other player in a later inning (but not in the same inning she ran as a CR - exception: injury / DQ and she is the last sub available) (DEFINITIONS and 8-10D).

Just an additional note on the CR. Even though it is not a substitution, the CR is still required to report to the umpire or risk disqualification for that game if discovered n the game after the next pitch, legal or illegal, or a play.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2004, 01:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 12
Talking

I just recently found this sight,and the first question I asked was answered in depth. Dakota, thank you very much for your fast response and the considerable information you supplied to me. It was in great detail, and I know it will be most helpful for me and my team.

P.S. Excellent sight, I have picked up alot of useful information reading through the posted materials.

Respectfully

Palmer
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 06:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 13,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by TareaspefeNef View Post
Yep, my turn to get the Greek.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 28, 2011, 06:19pm
Tex Tex is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texarkana, Texas
Posts: 155
Dakota,
Your link to "Gulf Coast Blue's site" does not work.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 03:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Gulf Coast of TX to Destin Fl
Posts: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex View Post
Dakota,
Your link to "Gulf Coast Blue's site" does not work.
I did not update it often enough and eteamz scrubbed it.....

Plus......the OP is over seven years old.

Joel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1