NFHS 2008 rule changes

[Dakota]

2008 rule changes:

3-2-11 will be changed to allow metal cleats.

1-5-4 will be changed to state that a bat must pass the ASA 2004 BPF, bear EITHER the 2000 or 2004 stamp and not be on the ASA banned list.

Rules will be changed, added, etc. to clarify ODB interference and the penalty.

This info is not officially from the NFHS, but from the NFCA.

[wadeintothem]

Thats terrible about the metal cleats..

I hate those things.. the destroyer of plate shoes.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

1-5-4 will be changed to state that a bat must pass the ASA 2004 BPF, bear EITHER the 2000 or 2004 stamp and not be on the ASA banned list.

According to that site, NOT CHANGED; clarified. NFHS NEVER intended the rule to be interpreted that the ASA 2000 certification was insufficient, as some states have directed. As discussed in other threads and forums, bats which have the ASA 2000 certification and are not listed on the banned bat list do meet the ASA 2004 requirements.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

According to that site, NOT CHANGED; clarified. NFHS NEVER intended the rule to be interpreted that the ASA 2000 certification was insufficient, as some states have directed. As discussed in other threads and forums, bats which have the ASA 2000 certification and are not listed on the banned bat list do meet the ASA 2004 requirements.

I'll bet you love telling your wife "I told you so"...

Notice, I didn't say the rule's intent will be changed, but it is a fact that the rule's words will be changed (at least according to NFCA). This is not an interpretation, but a change to the written rule. To clarify the intent, I'm sure. Good thing, too, given the variation from state to state in the instructions given to umpires and the somewhat meaningless "approved" list from ASA as it pertains to older bat models.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Remember, as Tom said, this is from NFCA. The lawyers will have a great time with the metal cleats. I'm surprised they are allowed in baseball.

BTW, I believe this change is a xxxx xxxxxx xxx thing and do not believe to be in the best interest of the players or their parent's insurance company. Many of these players do NOT know how to properly slide and a fair amount of coaches do not teach it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

This is all according to NFHS; it is on their website. NFCA simply picked up the press release.

2008 Major Editorial Changes

1-5-4
Clarifies that a legal bat must meet the 2004 ASA Bat Performance Standard, bear either the 2000 or 2004 certification mark and not be on the ASA non-approved list.

Tom, you are free to consider it an "I told you so"; but, I did. An editorial change that clarifies is not a rule that has changed; it is restated because it was being misapplied, and the rules committee wanted it applied correctly.

Regardless, this isn't the NFCA wishlist that they publish after their convention. It is the list of official changes for 2008.

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/08/softball.aspx

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

This is all according to NFHS; it is on their website. NFCA simply picked up the press release.

2008 Major Editorial Changes

1-5-4
Clarifies that a legal bat must meet the 2004 ASA Bat Performance Standard, bear either the 2000 or 2004 certification mark and not be on the ASA non-approved list.

Tom, you are free to consider it an "I told you so"; but, I did. An editorial change that clarifies is not a rule that has changed; it is restated because it was being misapplied, and the rules committee wanted it applied correctly.

Regardless, this isn't the NFCA wishlist that they publish after their convention. It is the list of official changes for 2008.

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/08/softball.aspx

I was just needling you and there you get all defensive!

Besides, the previous "clarification" from the NFHS was 2000 stamp didn't matter. If it did not have the 2004 stamp, it needed to be on the approved list. The controversy was whether there WERE any bats that had the 2000 stamp and were NOT on the approved list. Turns out there weren't - ASA's "approved list" is a glorified "grandfathered" list for all bats that were not specifically banned prior to 2004.

When I posted the NFCA link, I couldn't find the press release posted yet on the NFHS site. Doesn't mean it wasn't there... but that's why I linked to the NFCA. Since you had to point this out is more evidence of your "I told you so..." approach to life...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I was just needling you and there you get all defensive!

Besides, the previous "clarification" from the NFHS was 2000 stamp didn't matter. If it did not have the 2004 stamp, it needed to be on the approved list. The controversy was whether there WERE any bats that had the 2000 stamp and were NOT on the approved list. Turns out there weren't - ASA's "approved list" is a glorified "grandfathered" list for all bats that were not specifically banned prior to 2004.

When I posted the NFCA link, I couldn't find the press release posted yet on the NFHS site. Doesn't mean it wasn't there... but that's why I linked to the NFCA. Since you had to point this out is more evidence of your "I told you so..." approach to life...

Easy there, big boy. If you consider it an "I told you so" point, that would be fine by me. Steve and I tried to explain this issue as it pertained to the ASA standard and the NFHS rule. We ran into some folks that seemed to have no interest in the correct application, but were more in debunking how to apply the ASA standard to the rule book.

Well, . So there!

[SRW]

Metal Cleat Press Release from NFHS - Click Here

2008 Rule Changes from NFHS - Click Here

[IRISHMAFIA]

"Metal cleats provide better traction for athletes on nearly all surfaces, including hard, wet or under-maintained fields," said Cindy Simmons, chair of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee and assistant executive director of the Oregon School Activities Association. "They also help prevent slippage on the bases, especially home plate."

That depends on the construction of the base, but I know that metal on rubber is not a desirable combination and if there is any place a runner is likely to slip on a base it is the plate. Also, depending on the length and density of grass, spikes do not always provide good, if any, traction.

Current rules prohibit runners from illegal tactics when sliding, and if sliding is executed correctly, the risk of defensive players being "spiked" will decrease.

Key phrase in this statement? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

"Executed correctly" may be the downfall of many a HS player next year. I would love to know if Federation set up a committee to moniter additional injuries due to an approved equipment change. And the last sentence is a good one.

If the players haven't been wearing spikes, how and the instances of being spiked be decreased? And what about the instances that still occur? What are the odds that a players getting clipped with plastic/rubber cleats will incur a high level of injury than if straffed with metal spikes?

I wonder if anyone really thought about this before approving it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Oh, I forgot about the point that metal spikes have very little give when they work properly. Look for some more rolled ankles and wrenched knees.

BTW, all my posts on this subject come from personal experience. I wore metal spikes up until the local league outlawed them. I also witnessed quite a bit when coaching.

Metal spikes on those who know how to use them is not a bad thing. On players who are barely coached on how to slide properly and in a game where Olympic players have demonstrated sliding as feet-first, I don't think this is a good idea.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...Steve and I tried to explain this issue as it pertained to the ASA standard and the NFHS rule. We ran into some folks that seemed to have no interest in the correct application, but were more in debunking how to apply the ASA standard to the rule book.

Well, . So there!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Oh, I forgot about the point that metal spikes have very little give when they work properly. Look for some more rolled ankles and wrenched knees.

BTW, all my posts on this subject come from personal experience. I wore metal spikes up until the local league outlawed them. I also witnessed quite a bit when coaching.

Metal spikes on those who know how to use them is not a bad thing. On players who are barely coached on how to slide properly and in a game where Olympic players have demonstrated sliding as feet-first, I don't think this is a good idea.

Do you think it possible that coaches might have also some experience playing with spikes and realize they can no longer be lax in teaching players how to both slide and how to play their bases correctly?

So long as softball "cleats" were these little plastic knobs, there was little point in spending practice time on the techniques, right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Do you think it possible that coaches might have also some experience playing with spikes and realize they can no longer be lax in teaching players how to both slide and how to play their bases correctly?

Possible, but not necessarily so. There is no guarantee the coach is even going to have any softball experience as it isn't required in some areas. Some of these girls are not even aware there are softball shoes with metal plates and spikes on the sole.

So long as softball "cleats" were these little plastic knobs, there was little point in spending practice time on the techniques, right?

Have you seen some of the techniques at the HS level? Have you seen some of the college kids slide?

A couple of years ago, an Olympian (Leah O'Brien-Amico maybe) did one of these tip clips on sliding during the NCAA's or Olympic broadcasts.

Her advice was when sliding, lead with your feet and legs into the base. When she demonstrated, it looked as if she basically just threw her feet toward the base and laid down. I was astounded that someone who had made it that far in the game of softball did not know how to slide. I was even more surprised that some idiot had her offering tips to young players.

I don't want to see it, but I'm confident there will be issues involving injuries caused by young ladies wearing equipment with which they are not familiar.

But, Tom, you don't have to believe me. After all, you didn't believe us last year about the bats.

[Bandit]

Hey...Irish gangster guy....You say all this knowledge you have comes from first hand experience??? Including coaching...... Well, I think if any coach is worth a grain of salt they need to know how to teach sliding properly. So you are saying that all baseball coaches properly teach sliding? Is that why they get to use them? Maybe you do not know how to teach it but they have clinics for that if you would like to attend. I have had countless girls go on to play in college and they all come back and ask why they could not wear metal cleats in high school. I personally wrote letters to the federation trying to get the rule changed. Needless to say, I think they made the right decision.

You dont see girl basketball players wearing penny loafers do you? No, they play on the same surface that the boys do and they are permitted to wear the same type of shoe because it gives them the best traction. Listen carefully, I will type slow so you can understand me....the rule doesnt state that they HAVE to wear them. It just gives them the option.

There is a reason why high school baseball, college baseball and softball, pro baseball and softball wear them. They dont wear them because they sound cool walking on concrete!!!! They give you better traction. If you played something other then rec -league slow pitch, you would realize that games and players that are played at a high level need good traction on many different types of surfaces.

Dont bash high school coaches......I am one and I take offense to your biased view of the female ego comment and I am a male coach. Sounds like someone needs a bigger soap box. I applaud the federation for finally making the change. Let me guess....next thing is you will be for madatory face mask for the centerfielder and everyone using wiffle ball bats!!!

Stick to learning where the strike zone actually is and let the coaches and players deal with equipment issues that helps the athlete perform at a higher level. By the way scrapes and cuts heal a lot faster than pulled muscles or blown ACLs due to slipping or sliding.....