a rant on game management priorities

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

So saying "I don't listen to Robin, only Batman" would be bad then.

OMG!! I don't think I have ever laughed out loud on this site like I just did!! I swear that will be my next new line!! I cannot thank you enough - HILARIOUS!

As far as oldschool "whacking" a player for an untucked shirt - there's no way you can justify that with rule. No way - period.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You know what amazes me? NBA players automatically tuck their shirts in. High school players still have to be told.

I believe that the league fines them if this is observed on the video when the league reviews each game. Hitting them in the pocketbook gets compliance darn quick.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You know what amazes me? NBA players automatically tuck their shirts in. High school players still have to be told.

JR:

That is a great observation. And it is one that I tell the captains before the start of a H.S. game. I would like to know if NBA and WNBA players are fined for not wearing their uniforms correctly.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

JR:

That is a great observation. And it is one that I tell the captains before the start of a H.S. game. I would like to know if NBA and WNBA players are fined for not wearing their uniforms correctly.

I believe that they are fined in the NBA, Mark, as Nevada said. Iirc, the fine is so minimal though that it's barely pocket change to the player. I also read somewhere- also iirc in one of Charles Barkley's books, that players don't really worry that much about fines because they're tax deductible.

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm putting the owness on the players too.

Onus

o·nus /ˈoʊnəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[oh-nuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural o·nus·es. 1. a difficult or disagreeable obligation, task, burden, etc.
2. burden of proof. Compare onus probandi.
3. blame or responsibility.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Especially for all new or inexperience officials, please ignore this idiotic statement. There is absolutley, positively no basis for this whatsoever!

Old School, you maybe the biggest to ever post on this board.

And you the most arrogant, however, I have no problem giving a player a technical for not tucking in there shirt, after several warning of course. And you know what, after I do this, people start taking me real serious in my games, and players start tucking in there shirts. The technical is Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Rule 10.3.7: This includes "BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO".....

Deal with it, master

My point is this. Where does it end. The rule committee says this is a point of emphasis. So I give the players and the coach multiple warnings, send the players to the bench, but some players just refuse to obey this rule. I actually see them pull the shirt up, so that it's not tucked in. You have to take a side here. Either you are going to enforce it or you're going to let the players marginally get away with it. I personally am sick of telling players to tuck there shirts in. I'm sick of it at all levels. So now, I go technical foul and then there's no problems afterwards.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you ever do work your way up to a high school JV game in the future and you make that call, you will very quickly be on your way back down to the rec leagues from whence you came.

I'll leave the minor spelling and typo details to the little guys (and gals). This one is big enough for Ms. Annoying Grammar Gal of the Day to address.

The definition of the word "whence" includes the concept of flow, either directional or temporal. Thus using the word "from" is superfluous.

The phrase should read, "... you will very quickly be on your way back down to the rec leagues whence you came. rolleyes."

There will be a test at the end of the thread.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

You have to take a side here. Either you are going to enforce it or you're going to let the players marginally get away with it.

OS, I think you're grabbing the wrong end of the stick here. The rules committee does think it's important, but they also specifically say not to give a T for this (see website). Most high school players are negligent, not defiant about shirts. The shirts come out, and they ignore it. It's not a matter of letting them "get away" with something.

If you are working a game where the same player keeps travelling in the same way again and again, are you going to give her a T because she's trying to get away with something? No, but that doesn't mean you're being "soft". You can just keep calling the travel again and again, and hope she learns her lesson that way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'll leave the minor spelling and typo details to the little guys (and gals). This one is big enough for Ms. Annoying Grammar Gal of the Day to address.

The definition of the word "whence" includes the concept of flow, either directional or temporal. Thus using the word "from" is superfluous.

The phrase should read, "... you will very quickly be on your way back down to the rec leagues whence you came. rolleyes."

There will be a test at the end of the thread.

Shut up.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Shut up.

You're welcome.

[Junker]

Why are you giving players several warnings? Tell them a couple of times at most and then start sending them to the bench. If they want to play, they'll tuck them in. I had a varsity kid right before break get told twice to tuck it in. Late in the 1st quarter, he tried to check in with the back hanging out. I sent him back and told the coach we had talked to him too many times already. Coach chewed on him for a full minute and we didn't have a problem again. As far as the assistant, I can see why you wouldn't want to ding him in a 20 point blow out. I have no problem with you telling the HC to get control of his bench. I use this one quite often. I would not ignore an assistant popping off at any level. It should not be happening.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

OS, I think you're grabbing the wrong end of the stick here. The rules committee does think it's important, but they also specifically say not to give a T for this (see website). Most high school players are negligent, not defiant about shirts.

Totally disagree, players are pulling the jersey out, not tucking in the back. It's really taking a lot more effort to keep them in line than I care to put out. Sending them to the bench, calling delay on coaches, just a bunch of beating around the bush to me.

I'm looking for this on the website. Haven't found it yet.

If you are working a game where the same player keeps travelling in the same way again and again, are you going to give her a T because she's trying to get away with something? No, but that doesn't mean you're being "soft". You can just keep calling the travel again and again, and hope she learns her lesson that way.

This is dumb. Traveling is a violation, jerseys constantly untucked is an unsporting act IMO.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

Totally disagree, players are pulling the jersey out, not tucking in the back. It's really taking a lot more effort to keep them in line than I care to put out. Sending them to the bench, calling delay on coaches, just a bunch of beating around the bush to me.

I'm looking for this on the website. Haven't found it yet.

This is dumb. Traveling is a violation, jerseys constantly untucked is an unsporting act IMO.

Well, okay, in the games you're doing perhaps the players are pulling them out. I see that a lot with 8th grade boys especially. My games, I don't see much of it. Maybe it's a local thing. Jerseys untucked isnot a violation, true, but it's also not an unsporting act in anyone 's opinion except yours. I'm sticking to the rules and guldelines laid down for me by my own state interpreter in accordance with the NFHS. I hope you're conforming to your assignor, too.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Well, okay, in the games you're doing perhaps the players are pulling them out. I see that a lot with 8th grade boys especially. My games, I don't see much of it. Maybe it's a local thing. Jerseys untucked isnot a violation, true, but it's also not an unsporting act in anyone 's opinion except yours. I'm sticking to the rules and guldelines laid down for me by my own state interpreter in accordance with the NFHS. I hope you're conforming to your assignor, too.

Actually, I have never given a player a technical for this, but I would if they push me to it. Last year in college men's game, I started sending players to the bench, and the coach got mad at me, said I couldn't do it. This started a heated exchange between us and I almost whacked him for it. Since he was not in support of what I was trying to do, and his players kept doing it. This whole process of sending them to the bench became a cirrus, imo. Interrupting the game to send a player to the bench. Warning the coach for not having a sub ready in a timely fashion and you know the coach took his time about getting a replacement sub. I just think it's a lot of extra work for us to enforce the way the book wants us too.

Now, if I see a player pull his jersey up (10.3.7-h), just enough so it is marginally tucked in, after repeated warnings, he/she getting it from me. I guarantee once I send one technical, problem is solved, coaches and players.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by deecee

OS -- you cant be serious? even I think you are joking here...

Which part Deecee? For the most part, no, I'm not but I like to kid around with some of the posters here. It's kind of fun debating these topics and watching these guys riggle and squirm.