Helping the runner
Take a look at these two videos...do you have anything here?
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No and No.
Those are pushing the pile and I could make a case that the runner was not helped by anyone behind him. Peace |
No for both.
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No on both counts.
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I generally agree with the responses so far, but when a coach sees this and asks you why its not a penalty, it gets tougher to respond, since the rule book wording and case play is pretty clear.... how much would the player have to do in order for you to make this call?
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ASSISTING RUNNER
9.1 SITUATION: With fourth and goal from B’s 1-yard line, runner A1 is pushed at the line of scrimmage from behind by A2 in an effort by A2 to get him into the end zone. RULING: A2 has fouled by helping the runner. The foul carries a 5-yard penalty. Therefore it will be fourth and goal from B’s 6-yard line if the penalty is accepted |
No in both plays.
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In the plays shown above, I've got nothing. |
See William the Refrigerator Perry.
That said ... I might have called the ND-USC play a penalty, had it been in one of my games. 2 hands directly on the ballcarrier being pushed is one thing. Crashing into a pile contacting more than just the ballcarrier is nothing. |
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Peace |
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I STILL think that at the time, the Bush Push should have been called. Not many (other than ND fans) agree with me.
Now it is a moot point and I'm thankful for that. :) |
2010 Point of Emphasis!
Pretty sure in these clips you can see ASSISTING THE RUNNER The NFHS Football Rules Committee develops competitive rules that promote fair play and attempt to minimize risks to student-athletes. Fundamental to this process is the constant evaluation of the rules and how they impact the balance between offense and defense. NFHS Rule 9-1 states: “An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress.” These acts, whether intentional or not, create an inequity between the offensive and defensive teams and must be penalized without regard to down or field position. Pushing the pile forward has become more prominent at the high school level. This act alone does not necessarily constitute a violation of Rule 9-1 unless an offensive player is in direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward. Pulling or lifting a runner to assist his forward progress has no place in high school football. The sole reason these acts occur is to give the offensive team an advantage. Football officials are expected to penalize such actions so the balance can be maintained. |
All of that sounds great, but not once did I read or see an example that this POE applied to these plays shown in the OP.
And once again, you never have to make this call and if you did you would not be working very long. And you notice they did not go back to this POE after that year? I doubt much changed even in that year. Peace |
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1. Some refs actually started making this call, and the coaches on the rule committee didn't like it. 2. The rest of the coaches saw the POE and spent all year yelling for that call. |
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"Pushing the pile is not a foul" The fact that you as a coach won't admit the fact that Ohio has (and has for a long, long time) interpreted it this way is disheartening on your part. |
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Amanda Clearcreek and Ron Hinton would not agree with you at all.
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If the NF wanted to outlaw this kind of play, they would have made sure it was in all their literature. And the fact that there is basically a disclaimer about pushing the pile tells me even more their intent was never to outlaw what we see on the first two videos. The last video, there is a reasonable debate to be had. Peace |
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If he's a head coach, he should know (just like your head coach) since this matter is brought up annually. |
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I suspect there are coaches and schools right now whose opponents benefitted from a particular rule, and whom do not agree with the rule right now. Doesn't make them right, and doesn't change the rule. |
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Do they give my crew games? NO. Do we get playoffs based off of their recommendation? Hell NO! I put this on the equivalence of what the ACC Supervisor said about an issue in the off season and then the Supervisor of NCAA Officials not only disagreed, but gave evidence of why it was not what the ACC Supervisor claimed was illegal (without using his name). I do not have to answer to either of these two. And if I called what was suggested in the video, I would not be working very much, if at all. Peace |
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It is an Ohio thing, Ron is a big Boy and he threw a fit when HTR was called on his team in the state finals, over ten years ago.
It is hilarious if you saw it! He made a spectecal of himself and got a 2 or 3 game suspension! :) Each of the clips show this! offensive player is in direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward |
From the replies thus far, I don't think you'll have to worry about having this called for or against you, John.
Well, maybe against. |
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Do you deny that the powers that be in Ohio have said that pushing the pile is legal? |
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He has a rulebook, and thinks that's enough. |
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Peace |
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You guys have no idea what I have done or seen!
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I do know that you have yet to answer (or even attempt to) my question.
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[QUOTE=paxsonref;905492]Take a look at these two videos...do you have anything here?
I am not a football official (except flag football), but I also have nothing on this. I agree with those saying they are pushing the pile, which in my opinion, constitutes attempting to block players that are attempting to tackle the ball carrier. I have seen aiding the runner called once in my lifetime. Homecoming at my HS and the opponent handed the ball off and as the play came down field, the RB cut back so a OL was right behind him. The OL just flat out 2 hand shoved him in the middle of the back for about 4 yards as a helpless (that was my HS's entire team for most of the last decade) defender tried making a tackle. The funny thing was nobody on the crew knew the signal, they just knew it happened. |
Scout.com: 2003 DIVISION V STATE CHAMPIONSHIP
I am not sure where the new ohio director stands on this issue. |
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Same guy that says it is fine to wear shorts on Friday night?
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If it is not a safety issue for the fb to run and drill his own QB in the back to try and push the entire pile into the end zone or for a first down, I don't know what is.
It is silly to say it is not HTR runner when this happens. |
Whether or not you agree with the rule isn't and hasn't been the issue. There are many that we don't agree with as well. (was a recent thread about that subject)
I don't agree with the rule allowing blocking below the waist in the FBZ (under certain conditions) However, I don't go around saying that BBW in the FBZ is illegal, |
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Cooler weather, changing color on leaves, football and Big John vs. everyone else arguing. These are the markers of fall.
Are we about done here or do I actually need to lock this thread, too? |
I vote yes
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Reggie Bush play: definitely a foul.
In HS ball, if the player is ONLY contacting the runner and pushing him it is a foul. I've called it twice from my WH position. Can anyone tell me if it is a foul in the NFL? It looked pretty obvious last night with #33 of the Steelers pushing Rothlisburger. |
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A.R. From the 2013 Rule Book A.R. 12.2 Second and goal on B2. Runner A1 gets to the line of scrimmage and is stopped but A2, who is behind him, pushes him from behind and shoves him over the goal line. Ruling: Touchdown |
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