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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:33am
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Illegal Block?

FED Rules.

Flanker/TE set. (Flanker is on the same side as the TE)

Flanker goes in motion toward the TE.

On the snap, flanker double teams the DE with the TE.

Is this an illegal block?

If not, what things would/could make it illegal?

If initially illegal, what would make the block a legal block?

Thank you.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:06am
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Assume all 3 players are in the free blocking zone when the ball is snapped to the Q-back who in lined up directly behind the center. Since all 3 and the ball are in the free blocking zone all blocks are legal. That said, it would be extremely difficult to determine the status of the flanker. The L or LJ would not be able to see . The U would have the best chance. I would err on the side of the flanker being outside the free blocking zone. A running start and direct below the belt hit is not in the interest of player safety.

Assume only the DE and TE are in the free blocking zone. The flanker can certainly help block but needs to be above the belt and in front. If a flanker blocked below the belt , it would be blocking below the waist foul.

Once a illegal block is made, nothing can be done to reverse the call or make it legal.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:17am
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What in your scenario would remotely make this an illegal block?
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Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:24am
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The fact the "flanker", who being in motion it is assumed is a back, blocks the DE is not in and of itself illegal, providing the contact is legal.

Any back, a player not on the line of scrimmage is prohibited from clipping, blocking below the waist, or blocking in the back, regardless of the free blocking zone.

He certainly is suspect for committing a foul, but it could also be completely legal.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Is this an illegal block?
As described, there is nothing to indicate anything illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
If not, what things would/could make it illegal?
If one player blocks below the knees and one player blocks above the knees, then this would be a chop block.


Is there something you're unclear on or are you just throwing a quiz out there?
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Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 01:15pm
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You can block anyone you want, it is about if it is below waist or in the back or something like spearing or butt blocking. Otherwise all blocks not included are legal. The only other issue is in the FBZ and that is not at issue in the OP.

Not sure why anyone would think these descriptions would be illegal on any level? It does not matter where you are positioned, you can legally block anyone anywhere on the field. The manner of how you block might be illegal.

Peace
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Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You can block anyone you want, it is about if it is below waist or in the back or something like spearing or butt blocking. Otherwise all blocks not included are legal. The only other issue is in the FBZ and that is not at issue in the OP.

Not sure why anyone would think these descriptions would be illegal on any level? It does not matter where you are positioned, you can legally block anyone anywhere on the field. The manner of how you block might be illegal.

Peace
While I didn't put the FBZ in the OP, that could be included in the piece of if it is legal, then what could make it illegal.

I know that anybody can block anybody.

The question was posed to me by a coach so he knows how to instruct his players and since I never claim to know everything, and there are many of your football guys on here who have more football knowledge in your thumbnail than I have in total, I posed the question on here for some additional advice and talking points to make sure I don't answer his question incorrectly.

So....anything else that you guys can add, will help make the information that I give the coach more complete.

Thanks,
John
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Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 02:56pm
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In your situation, the flanker's block must be a) in front, b) above the waist, and c) not combined with a below-the-waist block by the TE in order to be legal.

If one of those three components isn't met, you'd have a) an IBB, b) an illegal BBW, or c) a chop block.

b) could also be a chop block if combined with an above-the-waist block by the TE.

Also, it's important to note that any flanker in motion towards the ball at the snap is going to draw attention from the wing official and/or back judge, specifically looking for illegal blocks by the flanker.
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Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 02:58pm
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As they say in the court room, "objection, facts not in evidence". Realizing we are being technical here but that is the point. The scenario presented in the OP is there is nothing illegal about it- FBZ or no FBZ. "Flanker and a TE performing a legal, double team block is legal, Coach." A high + low block is a chop block and is never legal.

A flanker, by standard position, is normally lined up off the LOS, therefore he may not BBW, legally clip, nor BIB. The basic question posed to you may need refining on his part. Your question back to him should be- "what is it exactly you want to do, Coach?" Beyond that, refer him to Table 9-3-6 in the rule book.
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Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
While I didn't put the FBZ in the OP, that could be included in the piece of if it is legal, then what could make it illegal.

I know that anybody can block anybody.

The question was posed to me by a coach so he knows how to instruct his players and since I never claim to know everything, and there are many of your football guys on here who have more football knowledge in your thumbnail than I have in total, I posed the question on here for some additional advice and talking points to make sure I don't answer his question incorrectly.

So....anything else that you guys can add, will help make the information that I give the coach more complete.

Thanks,
John
I understand, just wanted to make it clear the information given is not illegal. And the fact that this came from a coach is more reason why this question was asked. A coach often never picks up a rulebook, but assumes things from other levels and says things are illegal. Nothing as stated is illegal. If he is thinking there is a "crackback" block of some kind, that only applies to college and the block must be below the waist under the right cirumstances.

Peace
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 12, 2013, 09:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
On the snap, flanker double teams the DE with the TE.
There's nothing illegal about two players blocking an opponent.

If you want to add other factors in, you can certainly make it illegal.

But as written, nothing.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:45am
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Walter D. Robinson Phoenix replies:

Chop block if high/low hit.

Walter Duane Robinson
Walter D. Robinson Phoenix

Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
There's nothing illegal about two players blocking an opponent.

If you want to add other factors in, you can certainly make it illegal.

But as written, nothing.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:47am
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Walter Duane Robinson replies:

I hear coaches complain about "crack back blocks" all the time. I just give them a funny look since they never seem to get it no matter how many times I tell them!

Walter D. Robinson Phoenix
Walter Duane Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I understand, just wanted to make it clear the information given is not illegal. And the fact that this came from a coach is more reason why this question was asked. A coach often never picks up a rulebook, but assumes things from other levels and says things are illegal. Nothing as stated is illegal. If he is thinking there is a "crackback" block of some kind, that only applies to college and the block must be below the waist under the right cirumstances.

Peace
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
There's nothing illegal about two players blocking an opponent.

If you want to add other factors in, you can certainly make it illegal.

But as written, nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob4092xx View Post
Chop block if high/low hit.
Is it written as a high/low hit in the original post?

Again, if you want to add other factors in, you can certainly make it illegal.

Last edited by BktBallRef; Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 10:23am.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Again, if you want to add other factors in, you can certainly make it illegal.
That is what johnnyg08 asked in the original post, "what things would/could make it illegal?", so why are so many posters in this thread responding as if that question hadn't even been asked?
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