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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 09:37am
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Signal TD when OPI is going to be called

NFHS rules - Last night we had a 4th down play where A1 threw a pass into the end zone and A2 caught the ball for an apparent TD. My wing official threw an OPI flag and signalled TD. He reported the foul to me and we administered the penalty correctly and moved on.

Following the game we had a discussion about the appropriateness of signalling TD. His rationale was to signal the score so the B coach would know the results of the play when decision making. I suggested that B was not going to be allowed to decline the penalty because accepting was the ONLY right decision and that signalling the score would be 'teasing' the A fans into thinking there was a TD and then we take it away with the penalty.


Any thoughts about the pros/cons of signalling or not?
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 09:43am
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There are no cons to signalling.
There are no pros to not signalling.

The TD signal merely signals the result of the play. Of course, as an R, I would never even ask B what they want to do.

As for the other, let them be teased.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 09:51am
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Finish the play, signal and all. You would signal if this is someone else's flag, wouldn't you?
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 10:30am
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I see no reason not to signal. The result of the play was a touchdown.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 10:38am
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You should complete the signal. Yes we all know that the opponent will accept the foul but the referee and umpire also need to know the result of the play for clock purposes after penalty assessment.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 12:32pm
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If the R sees the flag, he can withhold a TD signal until after sorting it out. I agree that the appropriate downfield officials should signal TD.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 12:41pm
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I have had mixed feelings about this, but I cannot think of a good reason other than by practice not to give a TD even when you personally throw the flag. I have always wondered, what if the ball is just short of the end zone and we do not let everyone know we are calling a TD or just short of the EZ. I got scolded years ago for signaling a TD on an OPI foul I called, but I always did not see the argument not to signal the obvious result of the play.

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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 12:41pm
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Originally Posted by hlin nc View Post
you should complete the signal. Yes we all know that the opponent will accept the foul but the referee and umpire also need to know the result of the play for clock purposes after penalty assessment.
+1
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 01:06pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
If the R sees the flag, he can withhold a TD signal until after sorting it out. I agree that the appropriate downfield officials should signal TD.
Count me as one R who never signals a TD to the press box unless it's part of penalty enforcement.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 01:46pm
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We have some very old school WHs in my LA and it looks so silly when they turn to face the press box to signal TD. They're removing their eyes from the players, and then whack - Ooops we missed that one coach.

Only signal TD if it's part of a penalty enforcement as Rich says.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 01:52pm
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
We have some very old school WHs in my LA and it looks so silly when they turn to face the press box to signal TD. They're removing their eyes from the players, and then whack - Ooops we missed that one coach.

Only signal TD if it's part of a penalty enforcement as Rich says.
Exactly my reasoning. Why would I want to turn my eyes away from dead-ball activity?

I do signal the press box on the PAT, but even that's unnecessary if you think about it.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
Exactly my reasoning. Why would I want to turn my eyes away from dead-ball activity?

I do signal the press box on the PAT, but even that's unnecessary if you think about it.
Then what are the other 4 officials doing? Part of the reason I see we signal is to clarify we have no issues on the play. And I used to do this as a WH and I never took my eyes off the players when something was going on. I often did it when players were have clearly stopped playing. But we take our eyes off of players in many situation (like to go chase a ball on a long play or pass). I do not find that as a viable reason either way. If you do not want to do it I am OK with that, but not just because we take our eyes off the players when we have to do that a lot in this sport.

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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 02:05pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Then what are the other 4 officials doing? Part of the reason I see we signal is to clarify we have no issues on the play. And I used to do this as a WH and I never took my eyes off the players when something was going on. I often did it when players were have clearly stopped playing. But we take our eyes off of players in many situation (like to go chase a ball on a long play or pass). I do not find that as a viable reason either way. If you do not want to do it I am OK with that, but not just because we take our eyes off the players when we have to do that a lot in this sport.

Peace
If you asked me when the most extracurriculars happen I'd probably say during or at the end of long TD plays.

Yes, there are times we *need* to look away from players. This is not one of them.
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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 02:35pm
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
If you asked me when the most extracurriculars happen I'd probably say during or at the end of long TD plays.

Yes, there are times we *need* to look away from players. This is not one of them.
Out of bounds plays that happens or plays near the sidelines and because we do not have ball boys or 7 officials on the field it is possible two or three officials to have to completely take their eyes off the players. Again I do not totally disagree with you and this is something I have always done. I just think that we take our eyes off of players many times and the Referee is not in the EZ or near where most players are, they would be the last person I would rely on to watch players. Unless something is taking place way behind the play, not much the WH needs to be looking at. And if there is, this signal is not as important as watching players IMO.

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Old Thu Oct 20, 2011, 03:30pm
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I give tthe signals. Both on the goal line and as a Referee. First off that's the proper mechanics per the book. Next as any R can tell you the worst thing that happens to him is that he doesn't get the information. All you are doing when you signal a TD is that you are saying that the ball crossed the goal line. That's all. The R then checks with ALL the crew to make sure that no one has any issues. And then he signals the score. This doesn't have to happen immediately. If you have one of those games where there may be a problem then you use the scan of the crew to check for those types of problems. I have seen that most dead ball problems occur fairly quickly after a score (Most problems actually start BEFORE the dead ball). So taking a few seconds before giving the signal will suffice to making sure you're not going to have a battle.
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