The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
Invalid Fair Catch Signal???

My play: K punted the ball to R. The ball was high, but a tad shorter than R11 expected it to be. The ball hit the ground and then R11 gave a legal fair catch signal, but didn't recover the ball. The ball was subsequently downed by K.

My question: is this nothing or is this an Invalid Fair Catch Signal?


Rule 2-9-4c states: An invalid fair-catch signal is any signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recovered after the kick has touched the ground.


Well, in my situation, the kick was never recovered after the kick touched the ground.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 12:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC2 View Post
My play: K punted the ball to R. The ball was high, but a tad shorter than R11 expected it to be. The ball hit the ground and then R11 gave a legal fair catch signal, but didn't recover the ball. The ball was subsequently downed by K.

My question: is this nothing or is this an Invalid Fair Catch Signal?


Rule 2-9-4c states: An invalid fair-catch signal is any signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recovered after the kick has touched the ground.


Well, in my situation, the kick was never recovered after the kick touched the ground.
Am I missing something? You state, "The ball was subsequently downed by K.". NF: 2-36-1 defines "A recovery is gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground....."

NF: 4-2-2-f advises, "The ball becomes dead and the down is ended: (f) when the kickers catch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the Neutral Zone and when the kickers are first to touch a scrimmage kick after it has come to rest beyond the NZ between the goal lines."

"Downing" is an unofficial term commonly used to refer to K's securing possession of either a free or scrimmage kick.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 12:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 45
The ruling is an Invalid Fair-catch. When a valid or invalid signal is given,
the ball is dead when caught or recovered anywhere by Team R.
The rule was written so in the event R recovered the ball the play is whistled dead. In your example the ball being downed by K does not absolve R for the illegal Fair-catch signal.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 02:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
Am I missing something? You state, "The ball was subsequently downed by K.". NF: 2-36-1 defines "A recovery is gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground....."

NF: 4-2-2-f advises, "The ball becomes dead and the down is ended: (f) when the kickers catch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the Neutral Zone and when the kickers are first to touch a scrimmage kick after it has come to rest beyond the NZ between the goal lines."

"Downing" is an unofficial term commonly used to refer to K's securing possession of either a free or scrimmage kick.
Maybe I am being too technical. But K just touched the ball down after it had come to rest. They never actually "recovered" the ball. I thought it was Invalid Fair Catch signal, but there was discussion that since it wasn't recovered there was no foul.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 04:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC2 View Post
Maybe I am being too technical. But K just touched the ball down after it had come to rest. They never actually "recovered" the ball.
Either the ball was already dead and their touching it came afterward, or they recovered it, or you had an inadvertent whistle. Probably K's touching the ball down constituted recovery.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 05:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC2 View Post
Maybe I am being too technical. But K just touched the ball down after it had come to rest. They never actually "recovered" the ball. I thought it was Invalid Fair Catch signal, but there was discussion that since it wasn't recovered there was no foul.
I believe the rule states that an invalid fair catch is a catch AFTER it hit the ground and BEFORE it was recovered. Whether or not it was subsequently recovered has no influence on the call. If the kid signaled for a fair catch while the ball was loose on the ground, it's an invalid fair catch.

Now, if R had signalled AFTER another R had picked it up, then we have an ILLEGAL fair catch. 2-9-5 . . . An illegal fair-catch signal is any signal by a runner:
a. After the kick has been caught.
b. After the kick has been recovered.

If R Signals after K touches a ball that has come to rest, or recovers a ball that is rolling on the ground, the action by k has killed the ball, so all we have is an R player waving his hand in the air, no foul.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 06:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
An Illegal FC Signal is a foul that can ONLY be committed by the Runner after he has caught or recoverd a kick. If the kick has been caught or recovered by a teammate of the person signalling, then that player would be the runner, rather than the player giving the signal.(NF: 2-9-5)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 22, 2009, 07:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
An Illegal FC Signal is a foul that can ONLY be committed by the Runner after he has caught or recoverd a kick. If the kick has been caught or recovered by a teammate of the person signalling, then that player would be the runner, rather than the player giving the signal.(NF: 2-9-5)
Ok, I'll give you that, i should have said, "if after R recovered HE gave a signal it would be illegal, not invalid. It still supports the fact that recovering or not recovering has no bearing on whether it's invalid or not.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 23, 2009, 10:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroKen62 View Post
Ok, I'll give you that, i should have said, "if after R recovered HE gave a signal it would be illegal, not invalid. It still supports the fact that recovering or not recovering has no bearing on whether it's invalid or not.
No need to "give me anything". Just trying to avoid any confusion that could leave an incorrect impression.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
invalid fair catch signal yankeesfan Football 5 Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:53pm
NCAA rule on invalid fair catch signal? tskill Football 6 Wed Oct 15, 2008 02:09pm
Invalid Fair Catch Signal During a Free Kick MNBlue Football 9 Sun Sep 07, 2008 02:32pm
invalid fair catch parepat Football 17 Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:05am
Invalid Fair Catch Simbio Football 17 Thu Sep 09, 2004 03:39pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1