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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 10:38pm
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Horse collar

Is it illegal in high school football and if it is what is the foul and penalty?
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 10:54pm
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No. The "horse collar" is an NFL rule.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2007, 02:24am
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Lightbulb Canadian Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by secondregionbug
Is it illegal in high school football and if it is what is the foul and penalty?
CANADIAN RULING:

There is no specific restriction on the acts that the NFL calls a horse collar. However, like any play in our game, if an act is judged to be rough and unnecessary, the officials can rule the act as Unnecessary Roughness. UR is 15y + AFD. Spots of enforcement vary depending on the situation. If it's ultra-severe, the UR foul is upgraded to Rough Play, which carries the same spots of enforcement and AFD, but is 25y and DQ.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2007, 09:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
CANADIAN RULING:

There is no specific restriction on the acts that the NFL calls a horse collar.
There used to be one, violation of which was called "scragging".
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2007, 09:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman
There used to be one, violation of which was called "scragging".
You have to tell me more! I like the history of the game just like you do!
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Old Wed Dec 19, 2007, 01:15pm
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Horse Collar Wording

Can someone post for me the actual wording of the NFL Horse Collar Tackle rule, or alternatively, post a link to the wording.

Thanks

Last edited by Kajun Ref N Texas; Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 01:32pm.
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Old Wed Dec 19, 2007, 01:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas
Can someone post for me the actual wording of the NFL Horse Collar Tackle rule, or alternatively, post a link to the wording.

Thanks
This wording is from the NAFL rule book. I'm sure the NFL wording is close if not exact.

d..Grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down
the runner. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a
quarterback who is in the pocket.

The Penalty: For fouls in a, b, c, and d: Loss of 15 yards. If any of the above acts is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant, the offender may be disqualified as long as
the entire action is observed by the official(s).
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Old Wed Dec 19, 2007, 01:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theisey
This wording is from the NAFL rule book. I'm sure the NFL wording is close if not exact.

d..Grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down
the runner. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a
quarterback who is in the pocket.

The Penalty: For fouls in a, b, c, and d: Loss of 15 yards. If any of the above acts is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant, the offender may be disqualified as long as
the entire action is observed by the official(s).
Thank you.
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 06:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
You have to tell me more! I like the history of the game just like you do!
It dates from before there were helmets, but it lasted considerably into the helmet era, just don't ask me for dates. Among the items listed as RP was "scragging", which was not defined in the rule book, it was just common rugby terminology at one time. Eventually that wording in the UR & RP provisions was replaced with, approximately, "tackling about the head or neck in an unnecessarily rough manner" around the same time as "tackling out of bounds in an unnecessarily rough manner" came in. Previously the rule had theoretically forbidden either practice entirely, as is the case now again for tackling out of bounds.

Until about a quarter century ago, Canadian football was known as a rougher form of the game -- slow whistles, liberal interpret'n of the UR & RP provisions. RP wasn't an automatic DQ, only a warning or discretionary DQ for 1st violation.

Robert
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 06:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theisey
This wording is from the NAFL rule book. I'm sure the NFL wording is close if not exact.

d..Grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down
the runner. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a
quarterback who is in the pocket.

The Penalty: For fouls in a, b, c, and d: Loss of 15 yards. If any of the above acts is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant, the offender may be disqualified as long as
the entire action is observed by the official(s).
Oh! My answer to Juggling Referree was based on the idea that it was a neck hold by the arm, not a mere shirt collar. Why do they call it a "horse collar", then? They should just call it "collaring" somebody. An actual horse collar is a thick thing that more or less parallels the horse's clavicle; I was envisioning a tackler's forearm and inside of the elbow in that position -- like a half Nelson, but not necessarily from over the back.

Why is tackling by the shirt collar or shoulder harness even illegal in NFL & NAFL rules? It doesn't seem to endanger the neck anywhere near as much as actually holding the neck or clotheslining would.

Robert
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 06:21pm
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It's not about the neck, Robert, It's about the legs.
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 06:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman
...(snip)

Why is tackling by the shirt collar or shoulder harness even illegal in NFL & NAFL rules? It doesn't seem to endanger the neck anywhere near as much as actually holding the neck or clotheslining would.

Robert
Don't know, why don't you ask the NFL rules people. They just fined this guy big buck$ for his "horse collar" tackle in an NFL game last weekend. This comes after we was already warned for having done it twice this year already.

They (the NFL) apparently are taking this type of tackle very seriously.
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Old Sat Dec 22, 2007, 04:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnref
It's not about the neck, Robert, It's about the legs.
Wasn't it a horse collar tackle that ended the career of Bo Jackson?
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Old Sat Dec 22, 2007, 10:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hickland
Wasn't it a horse collar tackle that ended the career of Bo Jackson?
I think you are correct. I seem to recall he developed avascular necrosis in the hip from the awkard way he was pulled down by a horse collar tackle.
Robert will probably recall better than I.
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Old Sat Dec 22, 2007, 10:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theisey
Don't know, why don't you ask the NFL rules people. They just fined this guy big buck$ for his "horse collar" tackle in an NFL game last weekend. This comes after we was already warned for having done it twice this year already.

They (the NFL) apparently are taking this type of tackle very seriously.
The rule was created because Terrell Owens of the Eagles was "horse collared" by Roy Williams of the Cowboys and Owens was out for the rest of the regular season and did not play until the Super Bowl. Williams had also a year before hurt another player who I do not know by the same tactic. The NFL felt that guys were purposely grabbing that area and started to make this illegal.

Peace
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