Roughing The Kicker

[Husker John]

During our youth football game covered by High School Rules, we had our placekicker hit by a defender during the try. No roughing the kicker penalty was called. From my view, the defender did not touch the ball and was not blocked into the kicker.

The white hat said that under high school rules the defenders can hit the kicker without a roughing penalty being called. Is this correct, or there certain circumstances that allows this?

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by Husker John

During our youth football game covered by High School Rules, we had our placekicker hit by a defender during the try. No roughing the kicker penalty was called. From my view, the defender did not touch the ball and was not blocked into the kicker.

The white hat said that under high school rules the defenders can hit the kicker without a roughing penalty being called. Is this correct, or there certain circumstances that allows this?

This might be a "had to be there" thing.


Here is the rulebook wording:

Rule 9-4-5: Running into or roughing the kicker or holder.

A defensive player shall neither run into the kicker nor holder, which is contact that displaces the kicker or holder without roughing; nor block, tackle or charge into the kicker of a scrimmage kick, or the place-kick holder, other than when:
a. Contact is unavoidable because it is not reasonably certain that a kick will be made.
b. The defense touches the kick near the kicker and contact is unavoidable.
c. Contact is slight and is partially caused by movement of the kicker.
d. Contact is caused by R being blocked into the kicker or holder by K.

[Warrenkicker]

This is one of those situations that some coaches don't understand. There are two fouls we can call, roughing the kicker and running into the kicker. There is no foul for touching the kicker. The contact may have been either slight enough or partially caused by movement of the kicker so that there was no foul.

But then again we didn't see it so we can't say for sure.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Husker John

During our youth football game covered by High School Rules, we had our placekicker hit by a defender during the try. No roughing the kicker penalty was called. From my view, the defender did not touch the ball and was not blocked into the kicker.

The white hat said that under high school rules the defenders can hit the kicker without a roughing penalty being called. Is this correct, or there certain circumstances that allows this?

CANADIAN RULING:

We also have two flvaours of infractions: Contacting the Kicker is 10 yards applied from PLS. Roughing the Kicker is a UR foul: 15 yards + AFD from PLS, OR 15 from PP or PBD.

I also agree that it is a had to be there situation. However, if a player is blocked into the kicker, that player is not responsible for the contact. If a player does touch the ball, their restriction of not hitting the kicker is lifted.

[Husker John]

Thanks for the responses.

Our kicker was drilled just as he was kicking. The leg was just making contact with the ball. Either way, running or roughing would have resulted in the same penalty half the distance and retry.

I have not seen the film yet, but will look at it and see if there was some other potential reason for the lack of flag. However, the only explanation I was given was the one provided by the white hat that the defense was allowed to do this under high school rules. I have sent a similar question to the head of our officials and asked him to communicate to the white hat.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Husker John

During our youth football game covered by High School Rules, we had our placekicker hit by a defender during the try. No roughing the kicker penalty was called. From my view, the defender did not touch the ball and was not blocked into the kicker.

The white hat said that under high school rules the defenders can hit the kicker without a roughing penalty being called. Is this correct, or there certain circumstances that allows this?

Not to excuse anything wrong the WH may have done, but frequently the officials at youth games are less experienced officials (especially at the wings), and may not know the rules as well as a salty HS officials. In our area there is a shortage of officials for youth football for a variety of reasons (the parents the main reason), and we have very few WH's that have more than 2 or 3 years under their belt.

[Warrenkicker]

Now we get some more information that would have been helpful earlier. Now we hear that the kicker was contacted right at the kick. If this contact started before his foot hit the ball then there is not any foul for roughing or running into the kicker.

We don't call the player a kicker until he is kicking the ball. Before that he is just a back. If the contact is before the kick then the player being hit is not a kicker.

[Husker John]

Exactly! He was kicking the ball, therefore, he was a kicker. Just like I explained. I understand what you are saying. The contact was made in front of the tee and was close but after the kick.

[Warrenkicker]

I don't doubt your description of the play. I just wanted to make sure of the timing of the contact.

Barring a mistake by the white hat the only thing left in question is the severity of the contact.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mikesears

This might be a "had to be there" thing.


Here is the rulebook wording:

Rule 9-4-5: Running into or roughing the kicker or holder.

A defensive player shall neither run into the kicker nor holder, which is contact that displaces the kicker or holder without roughing; nor block, tackle or charge into the kicker of a scrimmage kick, or the place-kick holder, other than when:
a. Contact is unavoidable because it is not reasonably certain that a kick will be made.
b. The defense touches the kick near the kicker and contact is unavoidable.
c. Contact is slight and is partially caused by movement of the kicker.
d. Contact is caused by R being blocked into the kicker or holder by K.

So to add to this question: B66 jumps and blocks the PAT attempt and then his momentum carries him into the kicker. LJ throws a flag and calls roughing the kicker (WH did NOT throw his flag). We ask why a flag was thrown when the kick was blocked and WH says LJ wasn't sure the player who ran into the kicker was the same one who blocked the kick. (He was the only one back there, but that's beside the point) Is this correct? Does it matter who blocks the kick? In other words, if two players had gotten thru and both dive/jump to block the kick - B66 blocks the kick and B55 runs into kicker, that would be a penalty?

[Warrenkicker]

I had a play one time where one defender jumped and blocked the kick and never touched a K player. Another defender came through as well and went straight for the holder. He never tried to block the kick but nailed the holder. I had roughing the holder and we ran the try again.

You probably shouldn't see a roughing the kicker call on a blocked punt. Technically you might be able to justify the call but it is not a practical call. If K's coach is honest he might even disagree with the call.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So to add to this question: B66 jumps and blocks the PAT attempt and then his momentum carries him into the kicker. LJ throws a flag and calls roughing the kicker (WH did NOT throw his flag). We ask why a flag was thrown when the kick was blocked and WH says LJ wasn't sure the player who ran into the kicker was the same one who blocked the kick. (He was the only one back there, but that's beside the point) Is this correct? Does it matter who blocks the kick? In other words, if two players had gotten thru and both dive/jump to block the kick - B66 blocks the kick and B55 runs into kicker, that would be a penalty?

Is this a 5-man crew? If so, why is the LJ watching the kicker? Who watches the kicker on a 4-man crew? I thought it was the L.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Forksref

Is this a 5-man crew? If so, why is the LJ watching the kicker? Who watches the kicker on a 4-man crew? I thought it was the L.

It is the L in a 4-man as the R is watching the uprights (if you go strictly by the NFHS manual).