Back court violation question

[harsha_nails]

Here's a scenario:

1. A player from team A shoots the ball in front court, another player from team A secures the offensive board
2. Same player from team A attempts to dribble, a player from team B deflects/pokes the ball away towards back court
3. Now player from team A who lost the ball hustles back and deflects it away(before player from team B can gain control of the ball, still in front court) and the ball rolls into back court
4. Another player from team A picks up the ball in back court

Is this a back court violation?

[Ed Maeder]

Ask yourself. Did team A still have team control in their front court when the A player deflected it into the back court. Then there is your answer.

[Camron Rust]

Backcourt decision criterea:

1. Is there team control inbounds?
2. Did the ball gain frontcourt status?
3. Was team A the last to touch the ball BEFORE it returned to the backcourt?
4. Was team A the first to touch the ball AFTER it returned to the backcourt?

If you answer yes to all 4 questions, it is a violation. Otherwise, no violation.

(Edited to say "A" in #4)

[harsha_nails]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Ask yourself. Did team A still have team control in their front court when the A player deflected it into the back court. Then there is your answer.

No it was loose ball, and the player from team A just poked it back to back court where his teammate picked it up

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by harsha_nails

No it was loose ball, and the player from team A just poked it back to back court where his teammate picked it up

Originally Posted by harsha_nails

... player from team A secures the offensive board

4-12: Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of
the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by harsha_nails

No it was loose ball, and the player from team A just poked it back to back court where his teammate picked it up

This only means there was no player control at the time, but team control still remained for Team A, and that's what's important for the backcourt rule.

[harsha_nails]

Thanks for clarifying

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by harsha_nails

No it was loose ball, and the player from team A just poked it back to back court where his teammate picked it up

"LOOSE BALL" only has a rules based definition when millionaires are on the court. Were you playing under NBA rules?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by justacoach

"LOOSE BALL" only has a rules based definition when millionaires are on the court.

Or, people who want to officiate millionaires!

[harsha_nails]

Originally Posted by justacoach

"LOOSE BALL" only has a rules based definition when millionaires are on the court. Were you playing under NBA rules?

What if we were? Does the NBA rule on back court violation differ from FIBA?

[APG]

Originally Posted by harsha_nails

What if we were? Does the NBA rule on back court violation differ from FIBA?

Under NBA rules, team control ends on a defensive deflection. As such, your play would not be a backcourt violation under NBA rules.

[mutantducky]

just to clarify something similar

So if Team A after a made shot throws the ball to their front court. ball is deflected with no team control into Team A's backcourt- ball touches a Team A player in frontcourt but no control. Team A is the first to touch in the backcourt.

No violation here? Am I reading the previous posts correctly? There is no backcourt violation until team control has been established inbounds?
But in this situation is the 10 second rule in effect? So somehow no team control inbounds, ball goes back and forth between front and backcourt and 10 seconds pass. Does team control have to be established in the frontcourt for the 10 second count to stop? So team A could have both feet in the front court, touches the ball, but no control and it goes to the backcourt. Would I continue my 10 second count?

Ok let me add on to this. I'm still a bit confused about something(s). Team A throws the ball into their front-court. A2 touches and then A3 touches in the backcourt. No control in FC but this is a violation because of the location of A2 in the FC.

But there is no team control after a shot. So A1 shoots, misses and A2 taps the ball into the backcourt. A3 gets the ball. No violation here because no team control.

yeah I need to go to sleep, making this too confusing.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

just to clarify something similar

So if Team A after a made shot throws the ball to their front court. ball is deflected with no team control into Team A's backcourt- ball touches a Team A player in frontcourt but no control. Team A is the first to touch in the backcourt.

No violation here? Am I reading the previous posts correctly? There is no backcourt violation until team control has been established inbounds?

You got it.

Originally Posted by mutantducky

But in this situation is the 10 second rule in effect? So somehow no team control inbounds, ball goes back and forth between front and backcourt and 10 seconds pass. Does team control have to be established in the frontcourt for the 10 second count to stop? So team A could have both feet in the front court, touches the ball, but no control and it goes to the backcourt. Would I continue my 10 second count?

The 10 second count (for NFHS games) doesn't even start until there is team control....so no count at any point in the situation above.

Originally Posted by mutantducky

Ok let me add on to this. I'm still a bit confused about something(s). Team A throws the ball into their front-court. A2 touches and then A3 touches in the backcourt. No control in FC but this is a violation because of the location of A2 in the FC.

If you are saying this a is a throwin, then there is no violation.

However, if you're saying that A has the ball in their backcourt, in team control, then throws the ball into their frontcourt where A2 touches it such that it goes back to the backcourt where A3 touches it, that is a violation. Ball inbounds, team control, frontcourt ball status, A2 last to touch before going to backcourt, A3 first to touch after going into the backcourt.

Remember that once TEAM control starts, it continues until one of a few instances and the backcourt rule is about team control inbounds. It doesn't depend on player control existing at any of the locations.

Originally Posted by mutantducky

But there is no team control after a shot. So A1 shoots, misses and A2 taps the ball into the backcourt. A3 gets the ball. No violation here because no team control.

yeah I need to go to sleep, making this too confusing.

Correct.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

... there is no team control after a shot. So A1 shoots, misses and A2 taps the ball into the backcourt. A3 gets the ball. No violation here because no team control.

During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt, or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The 10 second count (for NFHS games) doesn't even start until their is team control....

Good point Camron Rust. The ten second count starts with player control (inbounds), not necessarily with a player "touch" (although they often happen at the same time).