Back court violation question

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The 10 second count (for NFHS games) doesn't even start until their is team control....so no count at any point in the situation above.

And even in games where the 10-second count starts on the touch, it stops when the ball reaches the FC. So in mutant's "ping pong" game play, the 10-second count would start-and-stop-and-start-and-stop

[mutantducky]

All right, thanks

For 10 second count, team-control inbounds is required.
On a throwin, team control is required before a backcourt violation can be called.
If control is established inbounds by Team A and Team A loses control of the ball, and the ball moves from the BC to the FC then back to the BC(no control) it is a violation if a Team A player touches it in the FC and then in the BC.

Is this one true- It would not be be a violation if Team A inbounds, control established, A1 makes a pass that deflects off B1 in the (A's) frontcourt, so two feet and ball in frontcourt but it bounces back into the backcourt. Team A can still get the ball without it being a violation. Is the 10 second count continuing in this scenario? Sorry- just cancel that. So Bob J. in this one the 10 second count would stop once it reaches FC, but then would continue again when it goes to the BC?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

All right, thanks

For 10 second count, team-control inbounds is required.
On a throwin, team control is required before a backcourt violation can be called.
If control is established inbounds by Team A and Team A loses control of the ball, and the ball moves from the BC to the FC then back to the BC(no control) it is a violation if a Team A player touches it in the FC and then in the BC.

Careful in your terminology. I don't think you meant that team A "loses control" but that a player on team a loses control (player control lost, but not team control lost).

If so, that would be a violation.

Originally Posted by mutantducky

Is this one true- It would not be be a violation if Team A inbounds, control established, A1 makes a pass that deflects off B1 in the (A's) frontcourt, so two feet and ball in frontcourt but it bounces back into the backcourt. Team A can still get the ball without it being a violation. Is the 10 second count continuing in this scenario? Sorry- just cancel that. So Bob J. in this one the 10 second count would stop once it reaches FC, but then would continue again when it goes to the BC?

Correct. Team B was the last to touch the ball before it returned to the backcourt.

Also, don't get confused with "two feet and the ball". That criteria is ONLY used for a dribbler who is moving across the division line. It not relevant at any other time.

When it doesn't involve a dribbler, the ball is in the frontcourt if it touches the floor in the frontcourt or a player in the frontcourt. A player who is not dribbling is in the frontcourt if the player is touching frontcourt and is not touching backcourt or is airborne having jumped from such a position. And it doesn't matter how many feet are doing the touching or even if it is feet at all...they could laying down with their feet in the air. (Same principle as OOB vs inbounds).

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

in this one the 10 second count would stop once it reaches FC, but then would continue again when it goes to the BC?

Not Bob, but, 10 second count starts immediately upon ball touching court in BC, no touch by player required.
9-8-1

(Credit to, and with kind remembrance of Jurassic Ref)

[mutantducky]

sorry I don't understand that last post.

Just to be clear, is this true?

For a 10 second count to begin, off a rebound or an inbounds play, there must first be team control inbounds. A touch without control will not start the 10 second count.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

sorry I don't understand that last post.

Just to be clear, is this true?

For a 10 second count to begin, off a rebound or an inbounds play, there must first be team control inbounds. A touch without control will not start the 10 second count.

NFHS...Correct.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

All right, thanks

For 10 second count, team-control inbounds is required.
On a throwin, team control is required before a backcourt violation can be called.
If control is established inbounds by Team A and Team A loses control of the ball, and the ball moves from the BC to the FC then back to the BC(no control) it is a violation if a Team A player touches it in the FC and then in the BC.
...

As Camron said, you need to watch your terminology. Often rules confusion amongst officials occurs b/c of such misstatements. When talking about possession there is Team Control and Player Control, plus we can add in At Disposal for throw-ins and free throws. If you stick to those terms it makes the rules clearer.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

sorry I don't understand that last post.

Just to be clear, is this true?

For a 10 second count to begin, off a rebound or an inbounds play, there must first be team control inbounds. A touch without control will not start the 10 second count.

IN NCAA, the count starts on a touch on an inbounds play (assuming the touch is in the BC).

On the "Ping-Pong" play:

FED: When the ball reaches the FC, the count is stopped. As soon as the ball reaches the BC, the count RESTARTS (not continues) -- even in the ball isn't touched.

NCAAW: When the ball reaches the FC, the count is stopped. The count restarts when the ball is touched in the BC (just having the ball touch the floor in the BC does NOT restart the count)