Block/PC + a little help? (Video)

[JetMetFan]

Here's one I found where the L most likely should have had help from his friends.





Again, three freezes.

1. When the pass gets to Blue #11 in the corner, the L has four players in his PCA. Two of them had been in the post.
2. When Blue #11 starts her drive a fifth player comes along into his PCA for the ride.
3. At the point of contact there are actually six players in his PCA. The T and C both have two in each of theirs.

The L even delays his whistle, probably because he thinks someone else is going to grab the play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's one I found ...

Nitpicking. Why no fist to stop the clock? Why wave off the basket that didn't go in? I can live without the player control foul behind the head signal. Many of our veteran officials substitute the team control foul signal.

Probably one of those "When in Rome ..." issues? Right?

[rockyroad]

C had a great look at the play and should have come in with a whistle...when he didn't, L needed to call something.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nitpicking. Why no fist to stop the clock? Why wave off the basket that didn't go in? I can live without the player control foul behind the head signal. Many of our veteran officials substitute the team control foul signal.

Probably one of those "When in Rome ..." issues? Right?

Good points. There's no behind the head since this is an NCAAW game. All fouls against the team in control get the punch.

In terms of the no fist to stop the clock, the powers that be are getting on us about that this season. One of the first items under this summer's camp teaching points was "All officials must show a foul signal (fist up) first on all fouls." Some folks - incorrectly - took that to mean every official on the court has to put their fist up on every foul call, regardless of whether they were the one who made the call. At any rate, it was especially emphasized on block/charge plays to avoid one person signaling one thing and another signaling something else (By rule, you can't have a "blarge"/double foul outcome in NCAAW. The "tie" goes to whoever had the ball in their primary).

The wave-off I think is just emphasizing "no shot." Of course, if you go fist then punch there's no need.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

C had a great look at the play and should have come in with a whistle...when he didn't, L needed to call something.

I wish the camera angle had allowed us to see where the T was at the time of contact. The pass into the corner came from his primary so he at least should have been on the post play, meaning he would've picked up the secondary defender at some point.

But yeah, best look on this is C and he doesn't move a muscle. If the players in his PCA had been jostling I could see not having any sort of reaction.

[Rooster]

From my perspective the T has to come get this. When the L opens up, indicating he's got the ball handler's competitive matchup, the T should then get the post players. W12 was the T's secondary defender. Mayyyyyyybe the T was straight-lined and didn't want to guess... He or she does seem to be high enough to not be in the camera angle. The C seems to have a good look, but that's pretty far away, no?

Now let's start the discussion about whether or not W12 was moving forward and the point of contact. Yeehaw!

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

But yeah, best look on this is C and he doesn't move a muscle. If the players in his PCA had been jostling I could see not having any sort of reaction.

Agreed. The C is a little too focused on Blue 35 and White 23 as a competitive match-up. The contact in the paint doesn't even cause him to flinch and he's undoubtedly got the best look.

I get that the play curls from the strong side and, presuming no whistle from L, would have no problem if T put a whistle on this. However, if I'm the Blue HC I would definitely be asking Trail as he came up the floor if he had the best look since C and L laid off of it.

[jeschmit]

Here's my take on it.

Yes, we all need fists up on fouls. I am one of the worst at this, and I've been working on it this summer at camps... Tough to do in the heat of the moment though.

Why is the lead so deep? He's way to far off of the endline in my opinion. Yes, I think we need to do what we can when we're in tight quarters on the endline, but this is a little much. He should probably be on the edge of the paint for the letters to be in a better position.

This is a tough play for all three positions, however the center has the best look at it. This is a prime example of being able to referee your primary while being aware of your secondary. If the center was able to recognize his next competitive matchup, he'd probably have a whistle on this play because...

This is another play where the center should know that the lead and trail are not in a good position to accurately call this play. The lead had on-ball in the corner and picking up the secondary defender is tough for them in this play. I feel that the trail was probably straightlined on this play by the way it curled around. A good center on this play would realize this and would come get it.

I'm not going to discuss the block/charge because I can see arguments on both sides of it. I am glad however that there was a whistle on this play, as if there wasn't one, it would've been an elephant that the crew would've missed!

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rooster

The C seems to have a good look, but that's pretty far away, no?

He's probably 5-10 feet further away than either the L or the T but he's also the only one who doesn't have a body in his way.

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I feel that the trail was probably straightlined on this play by the way it curled around.

I was thinking about this last night. It seems like a "perfect storm" situation where the T's angle was lousy at the point of contact. He also may not have been able to see White 11's feet. One ironic thing about this play: I watched the whole game and there were more than a few double whistles that my supervisors probably would've said weren't needed (I know it's something I need to be mindful of every game). I actually expected a double on this one, with the C being one of the two.

BTW, I have a block. White 11 was moving forward when the BH/dribbler went airborne.

I know NCAA-W's mechanics wants the Trail to take a crack at this, but this is absolutely the C's play. He only has two players in his area and is the only person on the crew who can tell if the defender has LGP before upward motion/offensive players leaves the floor. The C is 10-15 feet away but must close down into the court when all the players are on the other side of the floor. Thus, if he needs to make a call like this or at the rim he is in a position from where he can sell the call.

That said, good job by the Lead. He guessed, but he had a nice cadence whistle because he knew that play needed a call. Don't know why he would need to wave off the shot unless the ball goes in. If it did go in partners would need to help.

Originally Posted by Rooster

Now let's start the discussion about whether or not W12 was moving forward and the point of contact. Yeehaw!

She was. Discussion closed.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I know NCAA-W's mechanics wants the Trail to take a crack at this, but this is absolutely the C's play. He only has two players in his area and is the only person on the crew who can tell if the defender has LGP before upward motion/offensive players leaves the floor.

It isn't that the C can't take it under our mechanics. I'm sure any supervisor would say whoever can see it should call it. A whistle with an incorrect call on a play like this is better than no whistle at all so someone needed to pull the trigger.

Originally Posted by jeschmit

Yes, we all need fists up on fouls. I am one of the worst at this, and I've been working on it this summer at camps... Tough to do in the heat of the moment though.

I felt some comfort at the Big East/AAC camp when pretty much every observer there said they're probably going to have lots of trouble following the "fist up" mandate. They all said they're going to have to break some longtime habits. Of course, having Debbie Williamson as their supervisor now might make the habit-breaking go a little bit faster...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Why wave off the basket that didn't go in?

Because a shot was taken and you don't want to wait to see what happens to it / take your focus off the players to see if it went in.

wave it off so someone doesn't think the NCAAM rule applies.

C's matchup wasn't so competitive that he couldn't have taken this. I get the emphasis on "stay in your primary", but it can case (almost) as many problems as it solves.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can live without the player control foul behind the head signal. Many of our veteran officials substitute the team control foul signal.

Probably one of those "When in Rome ..." issues? Right?

In central Ohio we're told to use that signal to indicate that there will be no foul shots. But you're right... it's not in the book.

[Multiple Sports]

Ran this play by someone who worked the NCAAW D1 tourney the past few years and here is what I got......

This is L's call. T / C need to be patient and have a cadence ( delayed ) whistle on the play. Play originates in L's primary and the contact occurs
one step inside lane line...

The L is responsible for all parts of the SDF theory as they are all in his primary. While I am on the men's side, a constant theme I heard this year in my part of the country was correct call by correct person. Now if contact occurs and players are half way to the ground, then I will get involved, but I have no issues with the C on this play. If the contact is six inches on the other side of the lane line do you still want C to have a whistle.

Another dynamic for this play (and JMF will agree ). If you are the C or T and the crew is Dee Kantner and Eric Brewton are you coming and getting that play....HMMMMM

As far as the wave off, I bet that official that made that call is still doing hs, just a hunch. No need in NCAAW to wave off this play. Everyone in their game know you can't have a basket on this.......Captain Obvious can now leave the building.....

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Because a shot was taken and you don't want to wait to see what happens to it / take your focus off the players to see if it went in.

That's what I was thinking.

I have a habit (not sure if it's good or bad) of yelling, "NO SHOT, NO SHOT!" upon PC fouls or violations before a shot. I don't know if it's right or wrong, only that I haven't been corrected yet.

As for the signal, I look forward to the day we can use "the punch" on all team and PC fouls. For us, it's one or the other.