Travelling and More

[Pantherdreams]

What do you folks use as a judge or guideline on the release of the ball when a player is taking off to dribble.

By rule the ball is supposed to be out of the player's hand before the pivot foot comes up.

In terms of judging close plays here and in congested athletic games you obvioulsy can't wait until you clearly see not contact between the hand and the ball before the pivot foot is lifted (Can you). If this was the case I would expect to see 20-30 more travels a game called as people looked for space between the hand and ball before seeing space between sneaker and floor.

You are also running, watching for more things than travels I hope. So what do you use as your guide. Starting their dribbling motion? The ball moving downward with hand in close proximity? Or is this more of an art/feel sort of thing for you where you judge his dribble to have started so you are allowing the pivot foot to lift?

I only ask because we are starting to use some "dart fish
stuff to break down mechanical things for athletes in our area. Basically individual action capture video to break down parts of mechanical movements the coaches and trainers can use. We've discussed asking one of the schools to let us use their and then getting some officials together to break down problematic actions to see what is actually going on. We talked about travelling and when the ball is actually coming off the hand, but I'm not sure knowing in a slow motion break down is going to useful . . . thoughts?

[just another ref]

I'm probably the biggest proponent of calling traveling that we have here. But if you need slow motion to see it, don't call it. Just do the best you can. Much better to miss one than to call one that isn't there.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

You are also running, watching for more things than travels I hope. So what do you use as your guide. Starting their dribbling motion? The ball moving downward with hand in close proximity? Or is this more of an art/feel sort of thing for you where you judge his dribble to have started so you are allowing the pivot foot to lift?

Traveling is one of the calls I struggle with the most. I get almost every travel before a player starts his dribble, but when ending a dribble I can't identify the gather (and thus the pivot) while also identifying legal defenders and looking at everything else I need to be looking at.

I think it's a combination of the things you mentioned above, but primarily an art/feel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

(SNIP) But if you need slow motion to see it, don't call it. Just do the best you can. Much better to miss one than to call one that isn't there.

Agreed.

[Camron Rust]

Released doesn't necessarily mean they are no longer touching the ball.

I believe that, If they're no longer holding it, they've released it and have started the dribble, even if they're still "pushing" it towards the floor. That wouldn't be any different than any dribble between the start and end....the hand is in contact with the ball for periods of time throughout the dribble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

What do you folks use as a judge or guideline on the release of the ball when a player is taking off to dribble?

I don't look at the hands to see if the ball is released before the pivot is lifted.

I look at the pivot foot to see if it's lifted while the ball is still in the hands.

Yes, there's a difference.