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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:21am
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NCAA Shot Clock

Play: White #15 feels at 5' 10" he can dunk among trees. He goes up in the lane and is rejected by the front of the rim. The ball does NOT leave his hands on the dunk attempt. The shot clock is at 2 seconds. He subsequently returns to the court still in player-control.

Decision: Shot clock reset? Travel?

What say you?
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 10:08am
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From what I’m finding in the NCAAW rule book here are the relevant citations (if they’re the same on the NCAAM side of the ledger I’d appreciate it if you guys could confirm):

Quote:
(5-1-1) A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing or tapping the ball into her basket.

(5-1-6) A dunk is a try for goal that occurs when any player gains control of a ball that is neither in the cylinder nor on the ring and then attempts to drive, force or stuff the ball through the basket.

(5-1-10) The try starts when the player begins the motion that normally precedes the release of the ball on a try. The ball does not need to leave the player’s hand. The arm might be held so that the player cannot throw; however, she may be making an attempt.

(9-12-2) A shot-clock try for field goal is defined as the ball having left the shooter’s hand(s) before the sounding of the shot-clock horn and then striking the ring or flange, or entering the basket.

(9-12-4) It is a violation when a try for field goal does not leave the shooter’s hand before the expiration of the allotted shot-clock time (as indicated by the sounding of the shot-clock horn) or when it does leave the shooter’s hand before the expiration of the allotted shot-clock time and the try does not subsequently strike the ring or flange or enter the basket.
So it appears you have a try but you don’t have a shot-clock try, meaning you can’t have a travel but the shot-clock wouldn’t reset. A1 would have two seconds for a shot-clock try before committing a violation. Essentially the rules treat this scenario as an air ball.
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Last edited by JetMetFan; Tue Oct 29, 2013 at 10:41am.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:16am
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Off of memory, it looks the same.

5-1-10: Deals with a foul. Under the play in question a foul did not prevent the release...but the rim did (embarrassing for the player)

5-1-6: States a dunk is a try, which we know. In the play, a dunk was attempted. However, unlike a NORMAL shot or dunk, player control was not lost. Does the lack of losing player-control void the attempt?

Craziest play I have ever seen...and to top it off a similar play was on the NCAA test

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
From what I’m finding in the NCAAW rule book here are the relevant citations (if they’re the same on the NCAAM side of the ledger I’d appreciate it if you guys could confirm):



So it appears you have a try but you don’t have a shot-clock try, meaning you can’t have a travel but the shot-clock wouldn’t reset. A1 would have two seconds for a shot-clock try before committing a violation. Essentially the rules treat this scenario as an air ball.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA View Post
Play: White #15 feels at 5' 10" he can dunk among trees. He goes up in the lane and is rejected by the front of the rim. The ball does NOT leave his hands on the dunk attempt. The shot clock is at 2 seconds. He subsequently returns to the court still in player-control.

Decision: Shot clock reset? Travel?

What say you?
Travel. The player always had control, even though it started as a try.

The play is no different than "Player rises for jump shot, sees the ball will be block, keeps holding the ball and lands."

Last edited by Adam; Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:10am. Reason: off topic. :)
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Travel. The player always had control, even though it started as a try.

The play is no different than "Player rises for jump shot, sees the ball will be block, keeps holding the ball and lands."
But it’s still a try. If the shot had been blocked by a person as opposed to the rim that doesn’t change what it was when A1 rose off the floor. As long as we determine it was a try to begin with 5-1-10 says the ball doesn’t have to leave A1’s hands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA View Post
5-1-10: Deals with a foul. Under the play in question a foul did not prevent the release...but the rim did (embarrassing for the player)
I think the foul described in the rule is just for the purpose of providing an example. It’s also the most likely way A1 would not be able to release the try.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA View Post
5-1-6: States a dunk is a try, which we know. In the play, a dunk was attempted. However, unlike a NORMAL shot or dunk, player control was not lost. Does the lack of losing player-control void the attempt?
If it was B1 who caused the ball to remain in A1’s hands would A1 have lost PC? I'm saying "no" because in that scenario it would be a held ball once A1 returned to the floor and part of the definition/description of a held ball involving an airborne player says that player “returns to the playing court never losing control of the ball.” (NCAAW 6-4-2b) It's still a try, just one that isn't successful.
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Last edited by Adam; Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 08:10am. Reason: cleanup
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
But it’s still a try. If the shot had been blocked by a person as opposed to the rim that doesn’t change what it was when A1 rose off the floor. As long as we determine it was a try to begin with 5-1-10 says the ball doesn’t have to leave A1’s hands.




I think the foul described in the rule is just for the purpose of providing an example. It’s also the most likely way A1 would not be able to release the try.




If it was B1 who caused the ball to remain in A1’s hands would A1 have lost PC? I'm saying "no" because in that scenario it would be a held ball once A1 returned to the floor and part of the definition/description of a held ball involving an airborne player says that player “returns to the playing court never losing control of the ball.” (NCAAW 6-4-2b) It's still a try, just one that isn't successful.
I think there's a specific case play where A1 jumps, the ball is touched by B1, the touch doesn't prevent the release and A1 lands. It's travelling.

In practice, 99% of the time it will be a held ball.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:14pm
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NCAAW:

A dunk is a try for goal according to Rule 5-1.6
The shot clock is stopped and reset when a try for goal strikes the ring according to Rule 2-11.6d
So, reset the shot clock
It cannot be a travel because player control is lost when there is try for goal, therefore the player can recover the shot attempt and resume normal activities.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 08:18pm
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NCAA 9-12-2
A shot-clock try for field goal is defined as the ball having left the shooter’s hand(s) before the sounding of the shot-clock horn and then striking the ring or flange, or entering the basket.


Note that a shot-clock try for goal is different than try for goal.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reffish View Post
It cannot be a travel because player control is lost when there is try for goal,
Reference.

NCAAW 4-9 says team control continues until the ball is in flight during a try...

I don't see any exceptions in Travelling related to a try.
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Old Tue Oct 29, 2013, 10:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Reference.

NCAAW 4-9 says team control continues until the ball is in flight during a try...

I don't see any exceptions in Travelling related to a try.
I see what you did there...
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Old Wed Oct 30, 2013, 09:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeschmit View Post
I see what you did there...
First typo ever.
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Old Wed Oct 30, 2013, 05:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reffish View Post
NCAAW:
A dunk is a try for goal according to Rule 5-1.6
The shot clock is stopped and reset when a try for goal strikes the ring according to Rule 2-11.6d
So, reset the shot clock
9-12-2 supersedes and supplements (if that's possible to do both) 2-11.6.d. A shot clock try, as mentioned above already, must leave the shooter's hand. This is a NCAA-M test question, and the answer is wanting people to understand 9-12-2 and 9-12-4.

I don't personally like the rule/ruling on this, because it defies common sense (at least in my thinking), but iiwis.
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Old Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
First typo ever.
What typo? It actually is a valid alternate spelling of traveling. But you probably have to use FIBA rules to call travelling.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...rican-spelling
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Old Thu Oct 31, 2013, 06:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
What typo? It actually is a valid alternate spelling of traveling.
It's the correct metric spelling.
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Old Thu Oct 31, 2013, 07:52am
Eschew obfuscation.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
What typo? It actually is a valid alternate spelling of traveling. But you probably have to use FIBA rules to call travelling.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...rican-spelling
I took his "typo" as paying homage to a certain poster who took this board by storm this past summer... Seeing as how he capitalized it as well.

Whether he did it on purpose or not, it made me laugh.
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