Advantage/Disadvantage

[fshrake]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hawks Coach:
Tonight, we had a game where a ref came over to my assistant and explained advantage-disadvantage, from his perspective. We are team A, A1 steals ball at free throw line, guard A2 breaks right away, pass is made while B1 appears to foul A1 with A1 crashing to court, ball bounces out to A2 for easy layup. My assistant is beside himself wanting the foul as soon as A1 crashes (while I try to shut him up and point out that we're getting an easy layup). Asst is still perplexed as to how all that contact didn't result in a foul, even though we "got lucky" and ended up with a layup.

At halftime, the ref said he saw contact and, had we lost the ball, he would have called the foul. But he saw A2 getting an easy bucket and passed on the foul, choosing to rule it incidental.

I like this non-call. I am an old soccer player/coach where advantage is an official part of the rules and "play on" a frequent call. Defenders must either dispossess the offensive player or take them out of a clear opportunity for the call to be made and a free kick awarded. But in basketball, usually you see the foul called regardless of the effect it has on offensive advantage (defenders grabbing at dribblers to get a foul "on the floor" when they have been beaten or hammering a player while he is making an outlet to a teammate all alone down court). How do you guys call this type of play?

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I referee soccer mostly at the DIV 1 Amatuer level and Basketball at Varsity or Adult Leagues. The hardest thing I had to overcome in BB was the "advantage clause". I have learned over the years that A/D only exists under the basket and in the paint. If a foul occurs in plain view of all then it is best to call it. I had a 5AAAAA game where the player got hacked at the halfway line but still maintained possession for a layup. His coach and the crowd were furious because I did not call the foul ( even tho they scored ). By the way the player could not buy a free throw. Go figure.

[rainmaker]

quote:

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Originally posted by fshrake:
I had a 5AAAAA game where the player got hacked at the halfway line but still maintained possession for a layup. His coach and the crowd were furious because I did not call the foul ( even tho they scored ). By the way the player could not buy a free throw. Go figure.
[/B]

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In the "Go figure" department: I have seen several times when the dribbler is breaking away and the defender comes in fast and hacks hard. In the process, the defender trips himself (or herself) and flattens him/herself, leaving the dribbler all alone for an easy lay-up. Why is the dribbler's coach screaming!? I just shake my head at these coaches...

[John Crow]

Interesting. I think that taking control of a game from the start is critically important. I try to establish a strict limit on "hand checking" and "3 seconds" early in the game. If I let it go relative to A/D them it escalates out of control.

I call the breakaway foul. I could be wrong? But how can you anticipate the future? What if the kid with the clear layup travels or blows it? What do you do then? The kid that gets whacked hard and gets no call is going to look for revenge later, too. He'll expect to be able to whack somebody else hard and not pay.

[Macca]

I have been involved in teaching young officials for some time and one of the things I tell them is:

1) Know the rule as it is in the rule book.

2) Know the intent of the rule.

3) Place the rulebook in your back pocket as a reference point and use some common sense.

Something you may want to try is to referee the ball. There may be contact on the arm or body but was the player placed at a disadvantage or was he/she able to play on as nothing has happened, if so no call. If the player lost the ball or fumbled due to the contact the foul must be called.

If I am mistaken and this is not how you teach your referees please let me know, as I am interested in different philosophies and helping younger officials develop.

Macca from down under.

[JoeD1]

I've always been taught to referee the defense because its the actions D that usually determines the call;for instants,A1 drives the lane and crashes into B1,player control or blocking? The only way to determine that is to know whether or not B1 had obtained legal guarding position and the only way to that is if you were refing the D.

[Macca]

I agree with what you say about referee the D, but in ADV/DISADV situations I find by refereeing the ball as well (what happens to the ball after the contact) indicates to me if I call the foul.

This is basic refereeing philosophy but if we can keep it simple and less confusing we might induce more people into the sport.

[JoeD1]

I see your point.