IHSA Officials

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also the questions are scrabbled.

You mean the test answers are in crossword style? Note: no picture of a Scrabble board.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also the questions are scrambled. Your #1 question might be someone's #53.

Gasp!

What's that gonna do to the people who come here every year at this time and make their ONE post of the year pleading with somebody...anybody... to supply them with ALL of the answers in numerical order for either the FED Part 1 or 2 exam?

It's just not fair, damnit! After all, they only want the answers for study purposes. They'd never, ever dream of cheating. "Never, ever", I tell ya.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gasp!

What's that gonna do to the people who come here every year at this time and make their ONE post of the year pleading with somebody...anybody... to supply them with ALL of the answers in numerical order for either the FED Part 1 or 2 exam?

It's just not fair, damnit! After all, they only want the answers for study purposes. They'd never, ever dream of cheating. "Never, ever", I tell ya.

I realize this is going to tick you off, but the NCAA has an online test and it is encouraged to go over the test with other officials. Not only that I have heard Hank Nichols and Dave Yeast (Baseball Coordinator) openly advocate taking the exam with other officials in the room or at the computer. The NCAA has a similar testing process without as many questions and if I remember no time limit.

Actually it is encouraged by the IHSA to get help if needed (especially in football) because a lot of issues in football were crew decisions. This actually makes the test a little easier than previously where you could not get help on the test at all while taking the test (other than open book). To get to the highest level (Certified), you now can take an open book test, where before it was closed. That sounds a little easier than when I was taking the test.

I know you throw out the term "cheating" all the time. It is only cheating when you are violating a specific rule disallowing very specific practices. If you ask me the process is a lot easier than it used to be.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I realize this is going to tick you off, but the NCAA has an online test and it is encouraged to go over the test with other officials. Not only that I have heard Hank Nichols and Dave Yeast (Baseball Coordinator) openly advocate taking the exam with other officials in the room or at the computer. The NCAA has a similar testing process without as many questions and if I remember no time limit.

Actually it is encouraged by the IHSA to get help if needed (especially in football) because a lot of issues in football were crew decisions. This actually makes the test a little easier than previously where you could not get help on the test at all while taking the test (other than open book). To get to the highest level (Certified), you now can take an open book test, where before it was closed. That sounds a little easier than when I was taking the test.

I know you throw out the term "cheating" all the time. It is only cheating when you are violating a specific rule disallowing very specific practices. If you ask me the process is a lot easier than it used to be.

Peace

The goal obviously is have officials learn. It certainly is easier to have an open book on a C test. Our association as do many others, go over part one as a group and review answers. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put in.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

The goal obviously is have officials learn. It certainly is easier to have an open book on a C test. Our association as do many others, go over part one as a group and review answers. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put in.

I am not upset about the current process at all. I just think it is easier. And if I had to go through this process in football (which involves many group ruling and is much harder from a rules standpoint), I would have been a C long time before I actually was. That being said, if someone wanted help I would be happy if someone wanted my help to go through the test. After all, the test does not mean a damn thing if you cannot referee. The test alone is not going to make you work more varsity games.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know you throw out the term "cheating" all the time.

Yup, and I'll continue to do so for every single unprincipled ethics-lacking clown that comes here just wanting the bulk exam answers instead of wanting to discuss individual questions, situations, etc. There is one helluva big difference between discussing the exam questions and just regurgitating a list of supplied answers. The difference is that you might actually learn something using the one method; you don't learn diddly-squat memorizing provided answers.

Being able to attain a higher certification level without having to learn the appropriate rules is just wrong imo. They're just cheating themselves, but they don't think of that.

It is kind of a pet peeve with me...along with midgets, BoSox fans and anything to do with Notre Dame football.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, and I'll continue to do so for every single unprincipled ethics-lacking clown that comes here just wanting the bulk exam answers instead of wanting to discuss individual questions, situations, etc. There is one helluva big difference between discussing the exam questions and just regurgitating a list of supplied answers. The difference is that you might actually learn something using the one method; you don't learn diddly-squat memorizing provided answers.

Being able to attain a higher certification level without having to learn the appropriate rules is just wrong imo. They're just cheating themselves, but they don't think of that.

It is kind of a pet peeve with me...along with midgets, BoSox fans and anything to do with Notre Dame football.

Every request is not cheating. Everyone does not take every test for the same reasons. Everyone is not a regular to know that kind of information. And taking a test does not mean anything. It never has and it never will. When coaches start asking us what our test score is, I will buy into that logic. They never do or even know we actually had to take a test, so who cares what someone asks about a stupid test. You need to do more reading of a rulebook anyway than when you have to take a silly test.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Every request is not cheating. Everyone does not take every test for the same reasons. Everyone is not a regular to know that kind of information. And taking a test does not mean anything. It never has and it never will. When coaches start asking us what our test score is, I will buy into that logic. They never do or even know we actually had to take a test, so who cares what someone asks about a stupid test. You need to do more reading of a rulebook anyway than when you have to take a silly test.

Peace

I'm just going to jump in with a quick observation - doesn't the IHSA require a minimum test score to keep your license every year? If that's the case, the test score does mean something. And I know of officials that have copied the answers just so they don't have to go through the process of discussing the rules, or looking them up on their own. So, in that case, they really are cheating.

In this case, I agree with the Really Old One, in that there are people that come here just to get the answers, not to discuss and learn about the answers. There's a diffference.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm just going to jump in with a quick observation - doesn't the IHSA require a minimum test score to keep your license every year? If that's the case, the test score does mean something. And I know of officials that have copied the answers just so they don't have to go through the process of discussing the rules, or looking them up on their own. So, in that case, they really are cheating.

I will concede that you do need a certain test score (80/100), but the test is open book and we have weeks to turn in the test. The online version of the test has been available since Tuesday and we do not have to turn in the test until the middle of November. We have just short of two months to take the test. There are association meetings during that time and other events that people can get the answers for the test or some idea what the answers are long before the season starts. It is not against any rule to get the answers by everyone to work with others to get those answers.

As I said before, I have a group of individuals that we go over the test every single year. Only a couple of us do the actual background work and just about every person in our little group of about 10-15 people has not taken the test or reviewed the test before our meeting. This is also very common all over the state with officials I know all over the state. And if the state was totally against this reality, they could completely change the process and require officials to take the test at a set site on a specific date and everyone that wanted to get through the process would be willing to go through that process.

I have a friend that is retired and has some flexibility and applied for a license in another state in the southeastern part of the country (I am not giving the state). He took their test and just based on his test alone, he got varsity games and even has the opportunity to work the post season all based on his test. He had to take their state run test (not the NF test). He had to go down to the state and take the test on a specific time and he never had to attend a camp or prove that he had ability of an official. Now this person is older and once was a very good official, but he is declining on that side of his career (he would admit this) and he was shocked that he was put in such an important situation all based on a test. Now you want to talk about retaining officials that is a great way to get officials that have worked hard their entire career to have an "outsider" possibly pass them or be eligible for those kinds of assignments without having to prove it more than a test.

Retention of officials is a problem in our state and officials are getting older and older even when you include the age of many starting their respective sports (Their not starting in their early 20s anymore. The starting age is more like in the 40s now) and if you want to make it harder to keep officials, start requiring officials to have to take tests in that manner and Illinois will have a bigger problem then other places do across this country.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

In this case, I agree with the Really Old One, in that there are people that come here just to get the answers, not to discuss and learn about the answers. There's a diffference.

Not everyone takes the NF Test the way many here do. I suspect that many of those requests are innocent people trying to get answers to a test they did not have to take. After JR goes off on them, that becomes rather obvious if you look at their state's requirements. Of course we have the people trying to get over, but you do not need to come here to do that either.

I look at it simply this way. It is not illegal when there are no rules against it. The same applies to the rulebook. We cannot make something illegal because we do not like the practice.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Hmmm, well I guess the snail mail must really be...snail-like.

I almost forgot, I got my packet today. And yes, we have rulebooks.

Peace

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I almost forgot, I got my packet today. And yes, we have rulebooks.

Peace

Still nothing here.

Also, I heard talk that the score needed to promote to the C level is going to go up since you are able to take the exam online. From what I've heard, I believe this will happen next year. Has anyone else heard this?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I am excited. Wow, five days to complete? Law boards aren't that lenient. I just appreciate not having to drive somewhere to take it.

Change that to 3 days.

You just have to have all your recommendation letters in before November 17. It should be easier for winter sports than it was for the fall sports to accomplish this requirement. At least school is in session.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Still nothing here.

Also, I heard talk that the score needed to promote to the C level is going to go up since you are able to take the exam online. From what I've heard, I believe this will happen next year. Has anyone else heard this?

You have to get a 90% to get your C. To get your R, you still need an 85%.

Peace

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You have to get a 90% to get your C. To get your R, you still need an 85%.

Peace

Oh, ok. So it already went up? Was it previously 85% to promote to C?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Oh, ok. So it already went up? Was it previously 85% to promote to C?

It was up about Tuesday I believe.

Yes it was 85%.

Peace