Girls High School BB (NY State)

[Mike B]

Visiting Team has 12 members listed in the scorebook. The Home scorebook also records the same 12 members in their scorebook. Only 11 of the 12 are at the game to start. The 12th player (who turns out to be the star) was at a doctors appointment trying to get letter of health clearing her to play.

She shows up with 3 minutes to go in the 3rd period with the clearance letter. Coach wants to put her in. The official at the game did not allow. Was he correct? I forgot and could not find it in the 2006-2007 rule book.

[JRutledge]

If they are in the book before 10 minute mark or after the 10 minute mark during the pre-game warm-ups, the players should be allowed to play. Since the player was in the book at the appropriate time, I am not sure what rule you can use to hold the player out of the game. We did talk about this a few weeks ago.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they are in the book before 10 minute mark or after the 10 minute mark during the pre-game warm-ups, the players should be allowed to play. Since the player was in the book at the appropriate time, I am not sure what rule you can use to hold the player out of the game. We did talk about this a few weeks ago.

Peace

what he said.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...Since the player was in the book at the appropriate time...

She would be allowed to play even if she wasn't in the book at the appropriate time. They could have put her name in the book in the 3rd quarter if that's what they wanted to do. They would just eat a T for it.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

She would be allowed to play even if she wasn't in the book at the appropriate time. They could have put her name in the book in the 3rd quarter if that's what they wanted to do. They would just eat a T for it.

Unless they've already been penalized for this earlier in the game.

[BillyMac]

2005 IAABO Refresher Exam

73) Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warm up, the referee counts eleven team members for team A, but while checking the book, team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book, even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct?

73) Yes: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1, Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4.

Almost every one in my local board got this question wrong. We disagreed with the answer and citation then, and we still disagree with the answer and citation. If I recall, we got some type of explanation involving the definition of a "team member" involving a squad member being ready and eligible to play.

When I'm the referee, I'm pleased to see that there are more names in the book than there are on the floor during warmups. During the 25 years that I coached middle school basketball, I would put all 14 of my team members' names and numbers, in numerical order, in the book for every game, even if I knew that they would miss the game due to injury or illness.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2005 IAABO Refresher Exam

73) Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warm up, the referee counts eleven team members for team A, but while checking the book, team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book, even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct?

73) Yes: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1, Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4.

Almost every one in my local board got this question wrong. We disagreed with the answer and citation then, and we still disagree with the answer and citation. If I recall, we got some type of explanation involving the definition of a "team member" involving a squad member being ready and eligible to play.

Additionally, almost everyone on this forum also disagreed with that IAABO ruling when the question was posed a while back. I'm not currently in an IAABO state, so the ruling wouldn't apply to my games, but those that are would face a difficult choice in whether or not to enforce it.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

During the 25 years that I coached middle school basketball, I would put all 14 of my team members' names and numbers, in numerical order, in the book for every game, even if I knew that they would miss the game due to injury or illness.

I believe that is an intelligent thing to do. You never know when some strange event is going to happen that causes the game to be interrupted in the middle and then played to completion at a later date. I've seen a gym lose power at halftime and not be able to restore it and a roof which had multiple small leaks that caused water to drip onto the floor in various locations so that the referee deemed the court unsafe for play. Furthermore, I've been told of an instance in which a fight broke out in the crowd and 100s of people were on the court. All three resulted in the game being suspended.

Now if your point guard had a twisted ankle and was unable to participate when the game was started, but has recovered and is able to go two weeks later when the league/state association deems that the game will be continued from where it was interrupted, you now have the services of this player without needing to add a name to the scorebook and get dinged for technical foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2005 IAABO Refresher Exam

73) Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warm up, the referee counts eleven team members for team A, but while checking the book, team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book, even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct?

73) Yes: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1, Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4.

Almost every one in my local board got this question wrong. We disagreed with the answer and citation then, and we still disagree with the answer and citation. If I recall, we got some type of explanation involving the definition of a "team member" involving a squad member being ready and eligible to play.

.

That interpretation is ridiculous. It would have to cover a player in the dressing room getting taped that wasn't out yet, a player laying down for a few minutes pre-game because they don't feel good, a player a little bit late but still arriving before game time and still getting dressed, etc. Basically, that ruling is saying that if you can't actually see the team member on the floor during the 10-minute pre-game period, then they don't exist and if they do come out later after the game starts, it would cost their team a "T" to get them into the game. There's no time limits listed anywhere in the rule that IAABO is trying to use for justification--rule 4-34-4. All that Article is saying that a substitute checking into the game must be in uniform and be eligible. And to be eligible, all that is required under R3-2-1 is that their name and number must be given to the scorer to be put in the scorebook at least 10 minutes before the starting time. No more, no less.

That ruling is just basically saying that it's not only mandatory for a player to participate somehow in the pre-game warm-up, but that they also must be on the court when the referee counts the players. It doesn't matter that a player might have came out and practised, and then went back into the dressing room for something. If they aren't on the floor when the R counts 'em, they don't exist. Try to find that one in the rules somewhere. Again, that's just stoopid.

From what I've heard, every year there are wrong interpretations given out on the IAABO exams anyway. Apparently, that wasn't the only wrong one in last year's exam.

I agree with your local Board, Billy. The answer to that question is "NO". There's no rule(s) anywhere in the book that will back up that answer.

Btw, I wrote that exam too, as a refresher last year. I counted my answer of "NO" on that question as being correct. There were other questions on that exam that IAABO also had to go back later and admit that their original answers were wrong too iirc.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

From what I've heard, every year there are wrong interpretations given out on the IAABO exams anyway.

This year's IAABO refresher exam had three questions that were "wrong" according to the original answer sheet. The answer sheet that is now on the IAABO Web site has the "correct" answers.

Interestingly, in each of the questions, the rules citation to support the answer is unchanged. Only the "result" (a Yes or No) changed.

As to the original query: my IAABO board interpreter has given us the same ruling. I too disagree with it. But...what I have not been told is that the player may not enter the game AT ALL. While I disagree with the interpretation of "team member" as being in uniform and at the site at the 10-minute mark, I completely disagree that a player who arrives late may not enter the game under any circumstances -- not even at the cost of a technical foul. The original post said the referee would not allow the player to enter the game at all. This is not supported by any rule that I can find.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

As to the original query: my IAABO board interpreter has given us the same ruling. I too disagree with it. But...what I have not been told is that the player may not enter the game AT ALL. While I disagree with the interpretation of "team member" as being in uniform and at the site at the 10-minute mark, I completely disagree that a player who arrives late may not enter the game under any circumstances -- not even at the cost of a technical foul. The original post said the referee would not allow the player to enter the game at all. This is not supported by any rule that I can find.

Where do these get come up with this stuff? Do they sit around during the day just trying to make up their own ridiculous rulings?