free throw violations

[pinchmaster]

Hi friends,not sure of the proper procedures on a few situations.
I bounced the ball to the free thrower (now at his disposal),for two shots.(fouled on attempt,no basket). 1- does anybody HAVE TO stand in the spaces?The book says MAY.
2- B1 moves from outside arc to unoccupied space (while ball is at shooters disposal remember).violation right? What is the enforcement if the ball hasnt left the hand of shooter yet? 3 shots to make 2?
3- same thing as no2 but shooter is in 1 and 1 situation, give him 2?
4- what if a2 is the violator in the same situations.
cant find situations like that in case book
thank you

[26 Year Gap]

If a defender violates, you hold your whistle but signal with a closed fist to the side of the pending violation. If the shot goes in, it's nothing. If it misses, but not everything so as to cause a double violation, then another throw is awarded. If the offensive team violates, whistle it dead. If another throw is due, then that one is taken. Please don't use 3 to make 2 terminology. Reminds me of watching Wilt shoot FTs which was worse than watching Shaq.

And never put the ball at the disposal of the free thrower unless there are defenders occupying the closest 2 lane spaces.

[Edited by 26 Year Gap on Dec 28th, 2005 at 10:31 PM]

[refnrev]

Originally posted by pinchmaster
Hi friends,not sure of the proper procedures on a few situations.
I bounced the ball to the free thrower (now at his disposal),for two shots.(fouled on attempt,no basket). 1- does anybody HAVE TO stand in the spaces?The book says MAY,

2- B1 moves from outside arc to unoccupied space (while ball is at shooters disposal remember).violation right? What is the enforcement if the ball hasnt left the hand of shooter yet? 3 shots to make 2?
3- same thing as no2 but shooter is in 1 and 1 situation, give him 2?
4- what if a2 is the violator in the same situations.
cant find situations like that in case book
thank you

__________________________________________________ _________

#1. Yes, two opposing team members must occupy the first spaces unless the lane has been cleared.

#2. Violation. (I assume from your post that Team A is shooting.) When you see the violation, signal it but hold your whistle. If the shot is made count it and ignore the violation. If not re-shoot it. Give the second shot.

#3. If the first shot is made ignore the violation and give the second. If not, reshoot the first and let play resume as normal depending upon whether or not the first shot was good.

#4. In a 1 & 1 wave off the first shot which cancels the second shot. Ball out of bounds to opponent OOB. If shooting two, take the second shot.

[lukealex]

1: Rule 8.1.4.b says the first lane spaces must be occupied by the opponent of the thrower. This means the teammates of the thrower can't be there. Hadn't thought about nobody in the spaces, just isn't logical to not occupy the space though.

2: Rule 9.1 and the penalties have your answers for 2, 3, and 4. Use the delayed lane violation mechanic. If the free throw is missed, the shooter gets another attempt. If the shot is made, move on to the next shot or the throw in by B.

3: If there is a violation on the first of a 1 and 1, shooter does not automatically get 2 shots. Same procedure, shooter gets another attempt at 1st shot if missed.

4: Blow the whistle, lane violation on A2, no shot. Shoot second (or third if three shots) or team B gets ball for throw in if A was shooting 1 and 1.

[fonzzy07]

1. Yes the first 2 spaces must be occupied, but remeber that if a space is empty the opppsoing team may NOT occupy it

[BktBallRef]

FIRST AND FOREMOST, you never* bounce the ball to the shooter until both of the first spaces are filled by two defensive players. Those two spaces must be occupied by two member of Team B.

* The only exception is the resuming play procedure.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by fonzzy07
1. ... but remeber that if a space is empty the opppsoing team may NOT occupy it

I disagree.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by tjones1

I disagree.

I agree. I disagree with fonzzy as well.

If the second or third space is unoccupied, the opponent may occupy it, as long as the numbering restrictions are correct.

[tjones1]

8-1-4b, 8-1-4c, 8-1-4d

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I agree. I disagree with fonzzy as well.

So you and Tanner agree to disagree?

[yukonmiller]

One related question.

Shooter has the ball for 1 & 1.
Defender is in bottom space, offense in the next one, offense is also in the third spot.

2nd offender decides to leave the lane and go to half court. Defender at half court says, hey I'll take that spot.

It was called a double violation and the guy shot it over. I was thinking it should have been dead as soon as the offense left.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by yukonmiller
One related question.

Shooter has the ball for 1 & 1.
Defender is in bottom space, offense in the next one, offense is also in the third spot.

2nd offender decides to leave the lane and go to half court. Defender at half court says, hey I'll take that spot.

It was called a double violation and the guy shot it over. I was thinking it should have been dead as soon as the offense left.

You think correctly. The ball is supposed to be blown dead as soon as the offensive violation occurs. That FT is then cancelled.

[refnrev]

I don't want to sound condescending, but am I missing something here? How can free throw violations be a problem? They're as straightforward as anything we do. It's kinda hard to mess these up, gang!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refnrev
I don't want to sound condescending, but am I missing something here? How can free throw violations be a problem? They're as straightforward as anything we do. It's kinda hard to mess these up, gang!

Well, for instance, one of the violations could be disconcertion- either on a player or their bench. That's a judgement call all the way, not a black'n'white call.

You also have to sometimes decide the exact timing of the violations, especially if they occur really close together. The rules do allow for simultaneous violations, but a split-second either way on which one occurred first could bring 2 more different rules into play- depending on the sequence.

They just ain't that easy sometimes, Rev.

[Red_Killian]

Originally posted by tjones1
8-1-4b, 8-1-4c, 8-1-4d

I was going to disagree with this and agree with fonzzy until I looked at the case book. Rule book references sighted do not really explain that defensive players may occupy vacant offensive lane spaces. Case book 8.1.4 Situation states 'Legal in (b), four defensive players are permitted in any of the first three vacant marked lane spaces.'