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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 10:38am
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From Seth Davis column:
" These July events aren't just for coaches and players. Many of the events also simultaneously conduct referee clinics for different leagues. The Peach Jam served as a clinic for the SEC and invited some of its top officials to teach the aspiring zebras the finer points of reffing. I must say it was somewhat comical to see Ted Valentine, a very well-respected ref who has one of the shortest fuses in the sport, yuk it up with many of the coaches with whom he does battle during the course of a season. I had never met Valentine and, after needling me for harshly criticizing him after he ejected Texas coach Rick Barnes in the waning moments of his 2004 Sweet 16 game against Xavier, he told me his biggest complaint is the way the NCAA insists officials enforce the coaches' box guidelines during the tournament much more strictly than they do during the season.

"If a guy is coaching his team and isn't interfering with what I'm doing, I couldn't care less where he stands," Valentine said.
"
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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 11:52am
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That's interesting. With the way some of his problems with coaches have made for ESPN highlights, I would have throught he'd be one to want more bench decorum all season long.

From what I hear, bench decorum is going to be a big POE this year from the NFHS and also from my particular state (Washington). A lot of high school officials say, "I don't care where the coach is as long as he isn't screaming at me." They are going to really have to work on their bench management skills this year.

Z
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 12:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
From Seth Davis column:
" These July events aren't just for coaches and players. Many of the events also simultaneously conduct referee clinics for different leagues. The Peach Jam served as a clinic for the SEC and invited some of its top officials to teach the aspiring zebras the finer points of reffing. I must say it was somewhat comical to see Ted Valentine, a very well-respected ref who has one of the shortest fuses in the sport, yuk it up with many of the coaches with whom he does battle during the course of a season. I had never met Valentine and, after needling me for harshly criticizing him after he ejected Texas coach Rick Barnes in the waning moments of his 2004 Sweet 16 game against Xavier, he told me his biggest complaint is the way the NCAA insists officials enforce the coaches' box guidelines during the tournament much more strictly than they do during the season.

"If a guy is coaching his team and isn't interfering with what I'm doing, I couldn't care less where he stands," Valentine said.
"
I respect Ted just because he is not afraid to make that big call, or hit a coach with a T no matter what time.

I think that he takes a lot and all we see if the final result of the T. I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 01:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

Somehow I doubt that applies if your name is "Bobby Knight."
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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

Somehow I doubt that applies if your name is "Bobby Knight."

to be honest Bobby and him dont have a issue, it is just that Bobby tries to get away with things and Ted is not trying to hear it.

I read a article when Bobbie has a lot of respect for Ted and the way he calls the game
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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 02:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
That's interesting. With the way some of his problems with coaches have made for ESPN highlights, I would have throught he'd be one to want more bench decorum all season long.

From what I hear, bench decorum is going to be a big POE this year from the NFHS and also from my particular state (Washington). A lot of high school officials say, "I don't care where the coach is as long as he isn't screaming at me." They are going to really have to work on their bench management skills this year.

Z
I really do not think Teddy's comments apply to NFHS Rules, mechanics or philosophy.

Peace
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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 03:17pm
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It's a shame that Ted's "off season personality", as described in the original post, isn't always evident when I watch him on television.
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Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 03:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by whistleone
It's a shame that Ted's "off season personality", as described in the original post, isn't always evident when I watch him on television.
Have you ever totally watched one of his games, have you watched it form beginning to end.

He is a awesome official, he is great.

I think he calls teh game from a players opinion not form a coaches POV.

And that is why he is not like by many coaches.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

Somehow I doubt that applies if your name is "Bobby Knight."

to be honest Bobby and him dont have a issue, it is just that Bobby tries to get away with things and Ted is not trying to hear it.

I read a article when Bobbie has a lot of respect for Ted and the way he calls the game
Say what?

I've got Bobby Knight's recent autobiography in my library. Talking about officials, this is what he says about Ted Valentine:
"I like and respected a lot of guys. But my favorite was Charlie Fouty. And there's no question who's at the other end of that list; my least favorite. I have as little respect for Ted Valentine as any person I've ever known. I'll always feel he took an NCAA semifinal game away from us in 1992 at Minnesota, making our kids pay when- I don't think there's any question about it- he used me to gain recognition for himself. Then six years later, it cost me ten thousand dollars to tell the truth when I called the way he officiated in our 1998 Illinois game in Bloomington a travesty".

Knight's other comment in his book about Valentine also concerned that same Illinois game- "I'll stand by my comment: the way that guy worked that game was the greatest travesty I've ever seen by an official. And the three technical fouls- the first was absurd, the second even the Big Ten said should not have been called, and, because it meant ejection, it lead directly to the third".

Sure sounds to me like Knight still has some "issues" with Teddy Valentine.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 04:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

Somehow I doubt that applies if your name is "Bobby Knight."

to be honest Bobby and him dont have a issue, it is just that Bobby tries to get away with things and Ted is not trying to hear it.

I read a article when Bobbie has a lot of respect for Ted and the way he calls the game
Say what?

I've got Bobby Knight's recent autobiography in my library. Talking about officials, this is what he says about Ted Valentine:
"I like and respected a lot of guys. But my favorite was Charlie Fouty. And there's no question who's at the other end of that list; my least favorite. I have as little respect for Ted Valentine as any person I've ever known. I'll always feel he took an NCAA semifinal game away from us in 1992 at Minnesota, making our kids pay when- I don't think there's any question about it- he used me to gain recognition for himself. Then six years later, it cost me ten thousand dollars to tell the truth when I called the way he officiated in our 1998 Illinois game in Bloomington a travesty".

Knight's other comment in his book about Valentine also concerned that same Illinois game- "I'll stand by my comment: the way that guy worked that game was the greatest travesty I've ever seen by an official. And the three technical fouls- the first was absurd, the second even the Big Ten said should not have been called, and, because it meant ejection, it lead directly to the third".

Sure sounds to me like Knight still has some "issues" with Teddy Valentine.
I still think he is a great official, Bobbie Knight not liking him means nothing.

This man calls a great game, call him what you want and say what you want he is a great coach. What is the difference that B.K. punching his players, does that take away from his coaching.

I have seen many games called terribly.

I will use myself, this weekend I did a tournament, I gave one of the players and the coach a T on saturday.

I came back Sunday to do the the last 4 games including the Championsihp.

Who do you think was my first team i saw, it was the team that I gave the T to. They want to the tournament director and told him they did not want me to officiate there game because I did not like them.

First, Saturday is the first time i have seen this team in my life, so i really dont know them to dislike them. And what most people dont understand that as an official we have to let the previous game go and give them a clean slate, but do the coaches and players do that.

So they look for anything to pick abt.

I think that BK looks for things when TV does his games.

You dont have to like a person to officiate a great game for them. I think not liking them and still giving them a great game shows a lot of composure of a great official.

Tell me what do you think!!!!!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 04:15pm
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Location: Hell
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

Somehow I doubt that applies if your name is "Bobby Knight."

to be honest Bobby and him dont have a issue, it is just that Bobby tries to get away with things and Ted is not trying to hear it.

I read a article when Bobbie has a lot of respect for Ted and the way he calls the game
Say what?

I've got Bobby Knight's recent autobiography in my library. Talking about officials, this is what he says about Ted Valentine:
"I like and respected a lot of guys. But my favorite was Charlie Fouty. And there's no question who's at the other end of that list; my least favorite. I have as little respect for Ted Valentine as any person I've ever known. I'll always feel he took an NCAA semifinal game away from us in 1992 at Minnesota, making our kids pay when- I don't think there's any question about it- he used me to gain recognition for himself. Then six years later, it cost me ten thousand dollars to tell the truth when I called the way he officiated in our 1998 Illinois game in Bloomington a travesty".

Knight's other comment in his book about Valentine also concerned that same Illinois game- "I'll stand by my comment: the way that guy worked that game was the greatest travesty I've ever seen by an official. And the three technical fouls- the first was absurd, the second even the Big Ten said should not have been called, and, because it meant ejection, it lead directly to the third".

Sure sounds to me like Knight still has some "issues" with Teddy Valentine.
I still think he is a great official, Bobbie Knight not liking him means nothing.

This man calls a great game, call him what you want and say what you want he is a great coach. What is the difference that B.K. punching his players, does that take away from his coaching.

I have seen many games called terribly.

I will use myself, this weekend I did a tournament, I gave one of the players and the coach a T on saturday.

I came back Sunday to do the the last 4 games including the Championsihp.

Who do you think was my first team i saw, it was the team that I gave the T to. They want to the tournament director and told him they did not want me to officiate there game because I did not like them.

First, Saturday is the first time i have seen this team in my life, so i really dont know them to dislike them. And what most people dont understand that as an official we have to let the previous game go and give them a clean slate, but do the coaches and players do that.

So they look for anything to pick abt.

I think that BK looks for things when TV does his games.

You dont have to like a person to officiate a great game for them. I think not liking them and still giving them a great game shows a lot of composure of a great official.

Tell me what do you think!!!!!
Uh, I was just telling you what Bobby Knight thought, not what I personally think. What Knight thought about Valentine, and subsequently wrote in his book, was completely different than what you posted above. You posted that Knight doesn't have any issues with Valentine and also respects him. Well, Knight said the exact opposite about Valentine in his book, as I quoted him verbatim above. That was my point. I haven't called or said anything about Ted Valentine so far in this thread.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 05:02pm
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Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
I met him years ago and he is a joy to talk to and he will shoot the breeze with you and anyone for hours.

Somehow I doubt that applies if your name is "Bobby Knight."

to be honest Bobby and him dont have a issue, it is just that Bobby tries to get away with things and Ted is not trying to hear it.

I read a article when Bobbie has a lot of respect for Ted and the way he calls the game
Say what?

I've got Bobby Knight's recent autobiography in my library. Talking about officials, this is what he says about Ted Valentine:
"I like and respected a lot of guys. But my favorite was Charlie Fouty. And there's no question who's at the other end of that list; my least favorite. I have as little respect for Ted Valentine as any person I've ever known. I'll always feel he took an NCAA semifinal game away from us in 1992 at Minnesota, making our kids pay when- I don't think there's any question about it- he used me to gain recognition for himself. Then six years later, it cost me ten thousand dollars to tell the truth when I called the way he officiated in our 1998 Illinois game in Bloomington a travesty".

Knight's other comment in his book about Valentine also concerned that same Illinois game- "I'll stand by my comment: the way that guy worked that game was the greatest travesty I've ever seen by an official. And the three technical fouls- the first was absurd, the second even the Big Ten said should not have been called, and, because it meant ejection, it lead directly to the third".

Sure sounds to me like Knight still has some "issues" with Teddy Valentine.
I still think he is a great official, Bobbie Knight not liking him means nothing.

This man calls a great game, call him what you want and say what you want he is a great coach. What is the difference that B.K. punching his players, does that take away from his coaching.

I have seen many games called terribly.

I will use myself, this weekend I did a tournament, I gave one of the players and the coach a T on saturday.

I came back Sunday to do the the last 4 games including the Championsihp.

Who do you think was my first team i saw, it was the team that I gave the T to. They want to the tournament director and told him they did not want me to officiate there game because I did not like them.

First, Saturday is the first time i have seen this team in my life, so i really dont know them to dislike them. And what most people dont understand that as an official we have to let the previous game go and give them a clean slate, but do the coaches and players do that.

So they look for anything to pick abt.

I think that BK looks for things when TV does his games.

You dont have to like a person to officiate a great game for them. I think not liking them and still giving them a great game shows a lot of composure of a great official.

Tell me what do you think!!!!!
Uh, I was just telling you what Bobby Knight thought, not what I personally think. What Knight thought about Valentine, and subsequently wrote in his book, was completely different than what you posted above. You posted that Knight doesn't have any issues with Valentine and also respects him. Well, Knight said the exact opposite about Valentine in his book, as I quoted him verbatim above. That was my point. I haven't called or said anything about Ted Valentine so far in this thread.
You could be absolutely right, I was talking abt something i read earlier, I have not read BK book.

This is or was not an attack on you, i was just asking what do you think abt his officiating skills?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 05:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
i was just asking about what think abt his officiating skills? [/B]
Well, obviously Teddie Valentine is one of the top officials around. You don't work at his level, and stay working at his level for as long as he has, unless you're consistently doing a good job in the opinion of the people who hired you.

There isn't an official in the world that doesn't miss or blow a call every now and then. What separates the good from the great officials is the frequency of the missed or blown calls. The better the official, the fewer the misses.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 05:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love this Game
Quote:
Originally posted by whistleone
It's a shame that Ted's "off season personality", as described in the original post, isn't always evident when I watch him on television.
Have you ever totally watched one of his games, have you watched it form beginning to end.

He is a awesome official, he is great.

I think he calls teh game from a players opinion not form a coaches POV.

And that is why he is not like by many coaches.
I have watched Ted many times as he officiates in the two conferences I watch the most (ACC & Big Ten +1). I will agree that he is one of the best in the business (he certainly has the resume to prove it). In my opinion, he seems to draw attention to himself more than is necessary. Ted's body language presents a different image than what was described in jimgolf & LTG's posts.
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It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect.
It is at the same time rewarding and maddening-it is without
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 29, 2005, 09:17pm
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Not only have I watched Teddy V for many years on TV, I had the opportunity to watch him in person several times at the Big Ten Tournament in both Chicago and Indy. I think Teddy gets a bad rap for his behavior. The reality is many D1 officials do the very same things. Many officials just did not have such a big incident with such a well known coach. I am sure if someone had T'd up a coach as well known and with a similar reputation, we might talk about them as well. I have watched other officials so similar things on the court but we do not talk about them in the media or hear. Of course the most public situation was the incident with Bobby Knight at the Illinois/Indiana game. I also think people bring some very idealistic view to officiating as well as if all of us behave the same way on the court. Teddy V is not different than most officials. He is very confident in himself and it shows by how he carries himself on the court. I think he is clearly one of the best officials around and won an award this year that said just that.

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