What is the definition of "is"?

rainmaker · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:16am

I'm hoping this will run to 10 pages, things are getting kinda tame (lame?) around here!

Exactly what is the definition of "facing", as in, "...facing the opponent" when establishing legal guarding position? Here's the only way I can make this question make sense. Here stand two players, A and B. They are "facing" each other, nose to nose, chest to chest, belly to belly and so forth. Now A rotates 90 degrees so that her left ear is toward B's nose, her left shoulder is toward B's chest, her left hip is toward B's torso. Obviously, A is no longer facing B. But here's the $64,000 question: Is B facing A? B's face and front plane are toward A's body, but not toward A's front plane. So is B facing A?

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:19am

A doesn't have to be facing B in order for B to be facing A. Does she?

rainmaker · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:22am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
A doesn't have to be facing B in order for B to be facing A. Does she?

Well, see that's the question.

If they don't have to both be facing, then why is it not legal guarding position when B is running alongside a dribbling A? I always thought this was legal guarding position, but I had a very authoritative vet tell me otherwise. So after several minutes of arguing, I gave up, and brought the discussion here.

Adam · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:24am

Running alongside? Does B have her torsoe facing A while she's running alongside of her? Is she running sideways?

rainmaker · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Running alongside? Does B have her torsoe facing A while she's running alongside of her? Is she running sideways?

Well, she did when she was establishing.

Adam · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:28am

Sounds like she lost it if she has to turn and run. Did head and torso get past the defender, even momentarily?

rainmaker · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Sounds like she lost it if she has to turn and run. Did head and torso get past the defender, even momentarily?

No, it was a dribble from bc to fc, along the sideline, defender comes across, does a jumpstop sideways to dribbler, and then scootches along sideways, like a crab, totally keeping up, maybe even a half-step ahead, but not stepping into dribbler's straight-ahead path. This vet that I was talking to said that wasn't legal guarding position, because they weren't facing each other. What am I missing.

Adam · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 01:43am

Not sure. I'd say because she was never in the path of the dribbler, not because they weren't facing each other. Otherwise, you'll rarely find a post defender with LGP by this guy's definition.

rainmaker · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 02:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Not sure. I'd say because she was never in the path of the dribbler, not because they weren't facing each other. Otherwise, you'll rarely find a post defender with LGP by this guy's definition.

Don't have to be in the path to establish lgp. Both feet on the floor and facing are the only criteria.

TimTaylor · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 02:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Sounds like she lost it if she has to turn and run. Did head and torso get past the defender, even momentarily?

No, it was a dribble from bc to fc, along the sideline, defender comes across, does a jumpstop sideways to dribbler, and then scootches along sideways, like a crab, totally keeping up, maybe even a half-step ahead, but not stepping into dribbler's straight-ahead path. This vet that I was talking to said that wasn't legal guarding position, because they weren't facing each other. What am I missing.

Really like to stir the poop, eh Juulie?

By rule, the vet was wrong. To establish initial LGP, defender has to have both feet on the floor & be facing the offensive player. The rule says only what the defender must do - the physical orientation of the offensive player with respect to the defender is irrelevant. Once LGP is established, the defender may move as necessary, including laterally to maintain it.

blindzebra · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:07am

Facing is easy, the term that NEEDS to be defined is PATH, as the week long closely guarded war...er...thread will attest.

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Really like to stir the poop, eh Juulie?

Yea, but it's not working!!

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Really like to stir the poop, eh Juulie?

Yea, but it's not working!!

I think it's not working b/c the answer seems pretty clear. I don't need to be facing you in order for you to be facing me. Not a whole lot to stir, IMHO

Stan · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Facing is easy, the term that NEEDS to be defined is PATH, as the week long closely guarded war...er...thread will attest.

PC or not
http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...4&pagenumber=1

This is a germane thread. I think if you answer one you'll answer the other. I'm waiting for the big/old/experienced/learned/burned out dogs to answer.

rwest · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Really like to stir the poop, eh Juulie?

Yea, but it's not working!!

Let me see if I can stir the pot a bit!

If B1 is facing the basket with his back to A1 and A1 runs into the back of B1 with the ball, is it a PC? B1 did not have LGP on A1? Does that matter for a PC?

I'd call a PC foul, myself.