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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 07, 2004, 04:10pm
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I had an unusual situation in a JV game I worked last night. Both teams had their rosters in the scorebook 20 minutes before the start. However, neither coach marked their starters. In fact, both coaches did not return to the court until almost game time. One came out at 4 minutes, and the other came out with a minute and a half to go until tip. This was the first game of the night, so there were no obstacle to keep either team from having their starters in at the 10 minute mark. At about 9 minutes, I went and checked the book. Since neither team had any starters marked, I gave both of them team technical fouls. However, since neither coach was there I had to wait to notify them when they arrived for the start of the game. Both coaches were very upset. One said he didn't know the rule. The other coach has been a ref for several years and just started coaching this year. So she was clearly aware of the rule.

Since the game had not started and we had not established possession, we started with a jump ball. I did not make either team shoot free throws as I ruled that it was a double technical. The varsity official who was there early for the next game said that we should have shot free throws, and that we should not have had a jump ball. I have had this situation occur with one team not having starters marked, but this was the first time I have had it on both teams. How could I have established possession without a jump ball? Should both teams have really shot their free throws?

In addition, he says that he would not have given either team a technical since neither team had their starters marked. Did I really handle this the wrong way?
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Old Tue Dec 07, 2004, 04:12pm
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Old Tue Dec 07, 2004, 04:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by nails131
However, neither coach marked their starters. In fact, both coaches did not return to the court until almost game time..... At about 9 minutes, I went and checked the book. Since neither team had any starters marked, I gave both of them team technical fouls.

Since the game had not started and we had not established possession, we started with a jump ball. I did not make either team shoot free throws as I ruled that it was a double technical. The varsity official who was there early for the next game said that we should have shot free throws, and that we should not have had a jump ball. I have had this situation occur with one team not having starters marked, but this was the first time I have had it on both teams. How could I have established possession without a jump ball? Should both teams have really shot their free throws?

Congrats, you got 'er right. Simultaneous team technical fouls- no shots- supposed to be an AP-but you haven't set the arrow yet, so you have a jump. Good call.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 09:33am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Congrats, you got 'er right. Simultaneous team technical fouls- no shots- supposed to be an AP-but you haven't set the arrow yet, so you have a jump. Good call.
But, the jump is supposed to be between the participants, so get the coaches out there to be the jumpers.

(Yes, I'm kidding -- but it would be one way to ensure that the coaches always remembbered to indicate the starters.)
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 09:41am
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I agree that you did it right, but in JV games I'm usually a little more lax on having book finished correctly. Since it was both teams, why not have them mark the starters quickly and not have to go through the ordeal of having the technical situation? In a varsity contest, you have to call the techs, but I wouldn't in a lower level game. Just my opinion. On the same note, I had to start a game with a technical last night for the first time. Boys V, one starter was listed as #42 in the book, but was wearing #40. First time in my career that I've had that, but it annoyed me because it was supposed to be my first V jump of the year (I was the R).
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:12am
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in addition

Just to add to this, once the T's are charged both coaches will have their seatbelt on the entire game. That can always make life easier.

I do however agree with Junker on the lower level games. I do not know if I have ever checked a scorebook in a JV or lower game. If we find a wrong number in the book as we are moving along (WHACK) and keep moving.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:20am
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I think I need to clarify, I do check the book before lower level games, I'm just not as concerned with the timing as in a varsity game. As long as things are done correctly by tip off, game on.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:31am
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false implications

Sorry Junker, I did not mean to imply that you didn't check the book. I however do not check the book in lower level games, maybe that is wrong. I have really never had any problems with the book in sub varsity games.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 11:22am
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No problem, I wasn't offended or anything (I'm a ref and a teacher, it takes a lot to offend me). Your post just underlined that I needed to be more specific in my post. Thanks.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 11:33am
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This highlights a good point

Check the book before 10 minutes - preventive officiating. Get things fixed before they need to be penalized.

And your Varsity hot shot is a dork. You are going to shoot? Really? Who shoots first? So then the other team gets the ball at the division line for throw-in and thereby sets the arrow? So who shoots first? Your brother's team? No. The other team so your brother's team gets the ball first? Right!

Excellent job, Nails.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 11:50am
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Re: in addition

Quote:
Originally posted by Redhouse
Just to add to this, once the T's are charged both coaches will have their seatbelt on the entire game. That can always make life easier.

Can I just get a clarification on this, I always thought that scorebook T's are charged to the team only as administrative T's and do not count toward the coaches total.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:35pm
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Re: Re: in addition

Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
Quote:
Originally posted by Redhouse
Just to add to this, once the T's are charged both coaches will have their seatbelt on the entire game. That can always make life easier.

Can I just get a clarification on this, I always thought that scorebook T's are charged to the team only as administrative T's and do not count toward the coaches total.
You got it right, Ref18. The "T"s are charged to the teams. There are no indirect "T"s charged to the coaches and they can roam. R10-1PENALTY.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:39pm
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oops

missed that one. Isn't this a great place to learn. Thanks
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