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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 09:44am
UES UES is offline
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Exclamation MLB Umpire, UNSOLICITED, Overturns Another Umpire's Call

Here's an interesting call that you don't see everyday:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | COL@ATL: Pacheco homers, drives in a pair to fuel win - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Scroll through the play list and click on " COL@ATL: Chipper reaches on overturned call at first"

The play involves Scott Barry - HP Umpire (MLB Full time - NOT the Crew Chief) and Jordan Baker 1B Umpire (AAA/MLB). I put thier levels of experience because it may have contributed to how/why things played out the way they did.

I wait to hear your thoughts - this should be interesting ...
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:04am
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Can't find the film.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:11am
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Scroll to the end. It's the next to last video.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:12am
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It's at the end of the "Play List" (second from last highlight) when you scroll through
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:19am
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Obviously goes against the previous time-honored practice that one umpire won't overturn another umpire's call. Perhaps this is the "new and improved" way of doing things that will be reflected in the 2013 version of the MLBUM.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:26am
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That's awful. Not to mention that frame by frame the overturn appears to be wrong.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:43am
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 10:49am
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This is what you all get with your "board meeting" and "let's get the play right" junk that has been going on these last 5 or so years. Now, from out of the "blue", the correction call is made and it will not be the last time you see it!

Get your own calls right the first time and this crap wouldn't happen!
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 11:28am
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Once again, an umpire ventures too far onto the diamond to get a bad angle on a play at first. 2 to 3 steps is plenty, and keeps these types of mistakes from happening. I have no idea why the plate umpire made this overrule without first having the 1st base umpire come to him if he had a question. This sets a bad prescedent in my opinion.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 11:33am
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Well, let's start off with the fact that they got the call right - the foot was off the bag. Second, the HP umpire's job on that play is to go up first base line and watch to see that the foot is not pulled from the bag, so that was correct too.

Where they went wrong (in my opinion) is that instead of waiting for U1 to ask for help (which he should do if the question involves a pulled foot) and then allowing U1 to reverse his own call based on the new information, the HP ump immediately jumps in and "overrules" U1.

That just leads to more requests by HC to overrule other calls and gets the HP ump involved in every play. Next thing you know, you'll have Joe Maddon asking the HP ump to overrule a close call at 2B. Not good.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Well, let's start off with the fact that they got the call right - the foot was off the bag. Second, the HP umpire's job on that play is to go up first base line and watch to see that the foot is not pulled from the bag, so that was correct too.

Where they went wrong (in my opinion) is that instead of waiting for U1 to ask for help (which he should do if the question involves a pulled foot) and then allowing U1 to reverse his own call based on the new information, the HP ump immediately jumps in and "overrules" U1.

That just leads to more requests by HC to overrule other calls and gets the HP ump involved in every play. Next thing you know, you'll have Joe Maddon asking the HP ump to overrule a close call at 2B. Not good.
I agree with all of this except the first sentence. Frame by Frame - and there is one frame with the foot on the bag and ball just barely not in the glove, and the next frame has ball in the glove and foot just off the bag. It is inconclusive whether this was a correct call or not.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 12:12pm
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Does anybody have insight into what MLB umpires are being told to do now? Is this really a case of an umpire having a brain fart, or are the powers-that-be instructing them to change their ways, as was apparently the case when they removed a string bracelet off a pitcher's wrist?

I find it completely unfathomable that a professional umpire at the highest level would just blatantly commit one of the most egregious of umpiring sins. Could it possibly be something that they are being instructed to do to counter the potential expansion of instant replay?

The sudden spike in umpires making Out calls on tag plays when the fielder doesn't have the ball is one thing. But to call Time and immedately overrule another umpire's call without that umpire asking for help? That's stuff a rookie volunteer umpire in a local Little League coach-pitch game might do just once before he/she is taught the error of his/her way. I would never believe it would happen in a pro...

Oh, wait. I'm seeing flashbacks of Tim McLelland and Angel Hernandez again...
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 12:20pm
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I'm having a flashback to a Colt game this season where my partner did this to me and I nearly hit the roof. In my situation, there was no doubt at all that the F3 held the bag on a fairly routine play and the PU came out screaming he was off. I don't think I've ever been that mad at a partner on the field before.
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 12:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I find it completely unfathomable that a professional umpire at the highest level would just blatantly commit one of the most egregious of umpiring sins. Could it possibly be something that they are being instructed to do to counter the potential expansion of instant replay?

... But to call Time and immedately overrule another umpire's call without that umpire asking for help? That's stuff a rookie volunteer umpire in a local Little League coach-pitch game might do just once before he/she is taught the error of his/her way. I would never believe it would happen in a pro
I understand your point(s), as well as others, (except for mbcrowder)

If I had to guess here, I would say that Scott Barry saw a "gross" miss and tried to keep Jordan Baker, a young AAA/MLB guy from getting into a "Tim Welke" sh!thouse (and possibly all over SportsCenter) Yes, he definitely did NOT follow the protocol, but I do think he had good intentions despite going about it in untraditional fashion.

The big question is what if that was his Crew Chief making the call @ 1B - would he have done the same? One thing I learned from Welke's misfortunes is that if a call is BLATANTLY missed because of information he/she did not see, somebody else on the crew MUST step up, solicited or not, and make it right. I don't care if its a crew chief, rookie or whoever - in rare circumstances like these, we must put our egos aside and fix the situation because, at the end of the day, these mishaps will make Umpiring as a whole look bad.

One last point... while Baker may not have liked HOW Barry went about the whole thing, he probably did buy him a beverage after the game and said thanks for saving my a$$ in the end. If you've done any type of televised games with multiple replay angles... you know exactly what I mean. Most here have not so I'm sure I'll get piled on...
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Old Fri Sep 07, 2012, 01:19pm
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Originally Posted by REFANDUMP View Post
Once again, an umpire ventures too far onto the diamond to get a bad angle on a play at first. 2 to 3 steps is plenty, and keeps these types of mistakes from happening.
This. Especially in a 4-man crew with bases empty.
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